Are You A “Snowflake” Or A “Meteor”?

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A snowflake and a small meteor (meteoroid) fall from the sky, but that’s pretty much where their similarities end. A snowflake hits the ground, and unless it has perfect conditions such as the ground temp being low, and/or it is surrounded by other snowflakes, it will disappear in a short while. A small meteor that was tough enough to make it through the atmosphere hits the ground, and if it survives the impact unbroken, it isn’t going anywhere, and can be around for centuries. Hell, even if it is broken, the pieces will still be around for a long time (reminds me of some of my “mobility kill” Buddies LOL).

The reaction of many to this post will help them, and those around them, determine whether they are or have the capability of being a small meteor. If you are a militia group member, that is non prior service, and sensitive to being told the inconvenient and harsh “Facts of Life” in regards to some of your training and possible incorrect perceptions,  you are more than likely a snowflake, and are better off not disturbing you delicate pleasantries by reading this post.

I was asked a couple weeks ago to write a post based on a comment I made at WRSA that forwarded this premise, “on a good day, a civilian that has taken 3 or 4 SUT type classes from a Tactical Trainer won’t even be at the experienced Infantry PFC level”. Of course that type of comment elicits more than my normal share of “fan mail” because everyone knows “Paytriots” (if you’re not payin’ for the trainin’, you must not really care what happens to your country, and therefore, you are not a patriot) and “Moolishas” (because 2A said so!) made “‘Merica”, and if you don’t think they are the God ordained Shiznit of (i)nfantry, well you must be nothin’ but an Elitist Vet who is forwarding a defeatist mindset towards your “Lessers” and are setting them up for assimilation by the Borcs (Borg and Orcs, what a combination)….. right?

Some trainers have actually told those they’ve trained that the students were equal to, if not better than experienced Infantrymen after a class or three. If he said it, it must be true….right? No one would ever blow smoke up your ass to make a buck and get you to come back again and again……would they? The funny thing about those types of trainers is that they will regurgitate anything they think will lead to drawing a paycheck. They will change what they say and do to see what works with the crowd (what sticks when thrown against the wall), even if it means contradicting something they said just a few short years earlier.

Some blowhards were/are big on not only saying that you are the “commandos” (that was some seriously delusional “MilSimMeth” he was purporting) of the “fweedumb forces”, but that if you pay to join their club, you will be the future “Officers” of the “forces of fweedumb”, oh, and “here’s your (sign) patch.

A while back, a conversation was in play on social media regarding the militias, and their use by the government. This was my response,

“Wanna know what would happen if the government decided to “use the militias? First, they would call them all in for a muster (YAY, they are recognizing us!). Second they would assign present or former combat arms Officers and NCO’s (non combat arms Commissioned Officers or NCO’s need not apply) to each unit to evaluate them. Third, they would tell all the non prior service guys that if they are lucky, they’ll be able to stay and be privates (E-1’s). Next the prior service non combat arms guys will be told they will be E-2’s or even E-3’s if they show ability and heart. Finally the prior service combat arms guys will be given positions (E-4 or above) dependent on their proven ability and bona fides (DD214). At that point, those Officers and senior NCO’s will take control of their newly formed Companies. Multicam Airsoft Commandos (MAC’s) need not apply except for a AV function, since they’ve already proven they are good at taking pictures and doing videos of ‘ftx’s’.”

I know, I know…..Defeatist, Jackbooted, Elitist, Assholesque Ne’er-do-well-ian, right? How about Practical, Experienced, and Concerned former Soldier and Forever Survivalist who has seen too much pomposity, arrogance, and delusional wannabeism in those who think they are the next iteration of Francis Marion, James Ewell Brown Stuart. John Singleton Mosby and their favorite Halo character, all rolled into one. Here’s the funny thing about that. Francis Marion was a veteran (an Officer) of the F&I War, JEB Stuart was a combat experienced Veteran before the Civil War ever broke out, and John S Mosby started out in “Grumble” Jones’s “Washington Mounted Rifles” as a Private (not a Sergeant, and not a Damned Colonel) at the beginning of the Civil War. Notice a theme here?

What I decided to do with this post was get some others to give their thoughts on the quote the post premise is based on. Every one of the individuals who gave their thoughts is a military Vet. Every one of them served in Combat Arms (one type of Infantry or another) as Non Commissioned Officers or Commissioned Officers, and the majority are combat veterans. Why would I only consider the opinion of Infantry Veterans? It’s simple. Only an Infantry Vet knows what the Infantry is like. Only an Infantry Vet can give true insight into what my original statement was about. Why Infantry? Because Infantry is what you “Killahs” aspire to be, is it not? Anyone sayin’ I’m gonna conduct guerrilla warfare is sayin’ they want to be Infantry, whether they know it or not. Anyone sayin’ “I’m gonna conduct offensive operations in SHTF.” is sayin’ they want to be Infantry, Period!

If you haven’t EXPERIENCED it, you truly don’t know what you don’t know. No matter how many movies you watch, books you’ve read, or “SUT” classes you take, you have not experienced that of even the Infantry Private First Class’s existence. Taking an “SUT” class or three doesn’t equate to proficiency, it only shows familiarity. Familiarity and Proficiency are in different locations of the same spectrum, and mastery is on the opposite end from familiarity. A good analogy would be a toddler when they first learn what running is (familiarity), compared to a teenager who is in their second year of being on the HS track team (proficiency), and then there’s the Olympic runner (mastery).

So here it goes with the thoughts of others on the topic of, “On a good day, a civilian that has taken 3 or 4 SUT type classes from a Tactical Trainer won’t even be at the experienced Infantry PFC level”.

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Training Requirements for Consciously Skilled ‘Infantry’ Capabilities

Background of the Vet:  21 plus years active duty in the USAF; retired as a Senior NCO.  Of that time, 12 years in Air Base Ground Defense (Air Force for ‘Infantry’); comprised of 5 years teaching advanced ‘infantry’ training, rated “Master Instructor”, specialized in patrolling, 5 years on a RDT (Rapid Deployment Team) for 81mm Mortar & Hostage Rescue concurrently.  5 years as NCOIC of Air Base Ground Defense at field units building and conducting local unit training.  

At issue is the belief that a lot of well-meaning folks have that a few months of taking a weekend each month and undergoing Small Unit Tactics Training at any school under any trainer will make them equal with professional military ‘infantry’ trained units, from fire teams up through platoons.  This doesn’t even take into account the support that infantry type units have with organic and non-organic support weapons and sister service support (CAS, Arty, airlift, etc.).  They’re not looking at things objectively, nor are they understanding that they’re doing nothing more than ‘walk through’ familiarization that gets them to, at best, the ‘consciously unskilled’ (“I know that I don’t know a lot, and if my instructor helps me, I can get through the requirements”) level of task mastery.  I know these folks want to learn SUT to protect their families, and that’s a good thing, but where the problem comes is, again, where they, or their course instructors, conflate what they are capable of with what an active duty infantry trained unit as small as a fire team can do.  It’s just not true, and it sets the civilian student up to get killed.  In essence, the civilian student fails to recognize the limitations of his training.

Think about it:  How many hard contact hours are received over a 4 or even 5 day training course at ‘X’ school?  5 training days for civilian SUT schools provide, at most, 50 training hours, except in rare cases. I only know of one school that ran 20 hour training days for 3 consecutive days, but that school was running a very advanced course with students who’d had about 60 hours of basic skills training previously.  As it was, in each of the classes (about 25 students, average), between 6 and 8 would drop out or suffer an injury that precluded them from continuing.  Even that course had an 8 hour admin block before training started and 2 hours after course completion.

So, let’s be generous.  A 5 day course at school ‘X’.  It’s basic to intermediate in skill complexity.  And there’s no PT pre-reqs.  This is all about SHTF.  Chances are the training days are no longer that 9 hours, and a meal is built into the training day.  If the school has a cadre of multiple instructors, there will be change over time built in to the schedule, and then, break time, because most civilian attendees aren’t in their 20’s, in top physical shape, and able to take the standard training regimen that occurs on active duty.  So, figure out of each 9 hour day, you’ve got 2 hours for breaks, cadre change over, and meal(s).  Brings the contact time to 7 hours a day.

School ‘X’:  Basic SUT Familiarization Course – 5 Days, 50 hours

Admin Hours:  8

Break/Meal/Change Over Hours: 10

Hard Contact (Teaching/Evaluation) Hours:  32

Let’s compare this to courses I’ve taught or helped build:

Basic SUT Skills Course – Average of 260 Course Hours – Equates to about 28 training days of varying lengths from 8 to 20 hours.  5 days a week.  After week one, all meals during training taken during contact hours; breaks held to a minimum.  Let’s be generous and say 40 hours of the 260 are breaks, change overs, and meal times.  That’s still 220 hours for basic certification (Consciously Skilled).  Students having problems with attaining required performance are usually ‘recycled’ at one point or another to ensure funds spent are not wasted.  After 2 recycles, they’re sent elsewhere.  Or home.

Advanced Training –   Average 220 Course Hours – Equates to 20 to 25 training days of varying lengths.  Let’s keep the admin hours at 40, so we’ve got 180 hours of training.  5 days a week.

Subtotal:  400 hours.  For basic certification.  Which equates to walking and chewing gum at the same time. 

A civilian would have to attend 12.5 civilian SUT schools of 5 days (32 hard contact hours each) to approach the ‘Consciously Skilled’ level of an active duty soldier, airman, marine or sailor trained in SUT.

Based on current prices, the civilian student would have to pay over $6,200 @ $500 per course, not counting transportation, meals and lodging.

Back to active duty:  The newly minted SUT troop goes to his unit and is assigned to a seasoned NCO who starts his ‘OJT’, and for the next 1 to 2 years (sometimes longer) the troop is in a training mode, and most likely logging (out of a 3000 hour duty year) – 300 duty days or 10 months (the other two months are for garrison admin requirements and leave).  In 2 years, that’s 6000 hours of unit based training for ‘the real thing,’ in a squad, platoon, and company that lives, eats, sleeps, and trains together, building essential corporate and individual knowledge on how to fight as an infantry unit.

Compare that to what a civilian has available.  Most schools that even touch on some of the more advanced skills only do a walk through; legal liabilities restrain them, from say, teaching raids, ambushes, belt fed weapons employment, use of grenades, etc.

6,400 hours before the squad leader will be satisfied the new troop can be trusted to operate as part of the unit without someone directly supervising or getting someone killed.

In the example above, the civilian student would have to attend 200 five day courses (of 32 contact hours each course) to equal the amount of training time an E-3 (PFC, Lance Corporal, or Airman First Class) spends getting qualified in his unit.

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You can argue all you want about how many training courses you went to, but when you look at how he broke down the hours spent on training at different levels, only a fool thinks his tacticool class or classes will equal anything even close to a basic military Combat Arms “rite of passage”.

Next up is something brief but telling from a friend who is a retired Infantry Officer.

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Retired Infantry Captain,

Best I can come up with is they won’t even be good PFCs because they don’t share misery and/or have a common enemy. They don’t live together, sleep together, party together, or have common experiences. Common enemy? NCOs and Officers: They lack them.

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The “Common Enemies” of the Infantry PFC consist of the environment (where the Infantryman has to live and operate in), the day in and day out chores (KP for instance), and that of just keepin’ up with the minimum standards (you better not just be only meeting the Damned minimum standard Private!) such as requirements for uniform/hygiene appearance, PT, and weapons proficiency, can be daunting to many.

People think “Your uniform appearance doesn’t matter.” (paying attention to the details and presenting a squared away appearance matters to the Infantryman, especially when you go into the higher tier units), “I don’t feel like doing PT today (or this week)” (As an Infantryman, you always base your PT on the premise of not knowing when you’ll have to do your job for real, and the NCO’s make sure you remember that), “I just shot my weapon a few months ago.” (great, but considering that the Infantryman’s basic purpose is effectively using his weapon to stop the enemy, he doesn’t have the option to rest on his “laurels”). All of this is OK for the civilian, but not for the Infantryman. The civilian has a job as a priority, and it’s not being an Infantryman.

Here’s another thought from an Infantry Vet.

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Thoughts on Small Units, Civilians, and Skill

This writer held every position on a Long Range Surveillance Team up to Assistant Team Leader (ATL) and on the Line as a Fire Team Leader, Squad Leader and Weapons Squad Leader, and had three deployments, twice to Iraq and once to Afghanistan.

JC Dodge approached me with the request for input of issues with civilian thinking versus military proficiency; an issue which, if you’ve been around for a minute, provokes an interesting discussion drawing out the Walter Mittys in prime fashion when told anything other than what they want to hear. Well, stand in the door.

The original question was one regarding “no tactics are better than bad”, meaning that if one has simply read a book or watched a film, rehearsed it a few times, or even walked through a couple of weekend classes your better plan lay with creating a defensible area and networking with your neighbors in order to do the same. While I’ve been rather harsh on suburbia, it’s not without reason; rural, hilly terrain is easier to defend and more likely to be inhabited by people with needed skills and the youth who can endure more. For those playing militia in the woods and thinking the all the world’s questions were answered by SH 21-76, FM 7-8 and Patriots, you’ve got a very harsh reality coming and it’s coming fast. Contrary to what you might think, the two military texts are written for a specific audience assuming previous conditions exist; namely, supporting units and fire; the last a purposefully unrealistic picture of a best-case scenario; one that is unobtanium for anyone not into prepping or training for the past three decades and having people with combat arms military backgrounds.          

That last point is critical. While certain figments of the militia have contempt for prior military, it’s due to the fact that we pop your bubble and make you feel every bit as insecure as you really are. When I was originally asked the question, my immediate response was something along the lines of “movement, particularly akin to a LRS insertion, is much more akin to what preppers should focus upon rather than standard Line-unit battle drills and formations.” Deciphered to civilian speak, a Long Range Surveillance Team is an unsupported 6 man element which is expected to move long distances with at least a week’s worth of equipment to their planned hide sites, undetected upon entry into an enemy area; as one can expect, this is no easy task for even well trained soldiers. But that being said, the same principles apply to the civilian arena when concerned with low-signature movement into an area; the recon patrol, like its combat counterpart (ambush and raid) requires patience and hinges upon discipline, the plan, land navigation skills, and the ability to creep along at a very slow pace. In the LRS paradigm, only one battle drill is the primary focus; Break Contact, and it is a modified drill.

There’s various ways its done, some do an Aussie Peel, some side step the Senior Scout (“pointman” to the uninitiated) in order to provide the maximum firepower to wherever the contact is coming from; “Bravo Two Zero” provides a good vignette of such a team move. The team continues to retrograde (Rangers never Retreat.) until they’re not being shot at anymore. Sounds sort of like what prepper-militia types are looking to do with limited numbers. The reality is though, that with a handful of people, especially those that have neither fired a shot in anger nor been on the receiving end, you’re in a world of hurt. You are not Infantry, you do not posses Infantry, and for your own survival, stop confusing yourself that you are.

So we can properly identify that movement then is far more important than the cool-guy run and gun nonsense most confuse with actual ‘tactics’. Being quiet in the outdoors and understanding that people generally take the easiest paths becomes the method by which a team can both hunt and avoid being hunted.

Don’t Take the Same Route Twice, MAJ Rogers’ so said. With that, principles hunters use are far more applicable to a partisan group than looking like you’re about to kick doors in Baghdad and making the same amount of noise as an unbalanced over-encumbered Infantry team would. Just like how you’re not Infantry, you’re also not SWAT. Quiet movement coupled with a high degree of knowledge of your terrain are critical to those seeking the initiative in combat. It is not the ambushed who usually win, nor is it the reactive element. All of these principles combined are what we who teach these skills (to military folks) call “natural lines of drift”.

​These intersecting factors, the size of team and accompanying expectations of capability, along with competent terrain analysis and route selection for both movement and attack, should be the primary focus of the prepper/militia/survivalist who finds himself on an offensive patrol. It is not sexy, makes for very boring video, and takes weeks upon weeks of team development for proficiency not normally gained in a weekend. You can pick up some skills, sure, you can even get a good gauge of your own fitness and applicability to such types of patrolling, but you won’t become a recon man in two or three days. For that reason when one of us derides the cool-guy wanna be stuff, instead of scoffing and self affirmation the reaction should be to perk the ears up and listen. A PFC in any Line Infantry unit is miles ahead of the walking army surplus store who can tell you the current head of the CFR but not his last 12 mile ruck time. It takes experience to run these sort of operations, and despite the bubbles that some of you prefer to live in, any bush-dwelling ex-grunt should be the proverbial water to your sponge.

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The writer and I have discussed some of what was written here, and due to some similar experiences in training, unit type and other factors both in the military and as civilians (both of us having an early on Survivalist mindset), we completely agree on how Survivalists should be trained and go about practicing for SHTF.

And finally, here is the last contributor to this post,

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From an 18F

Can militia types, with their handful of weekend “SUT” (they are no such
thing) classes be integrated into the Regular or NG infantry? The answer is… no. The answer is no for the simple reason that the
rawest private out of Basic and AIT, freshly assigned to a rifle squad
in any infantry unit, is head and shoulders above any militia type no
matter how many weekend “SUT” classes the militia type has had. And even
then it takes almost a year of nearly constant training before that
rawest private can be considered an infantryman in his squad.

Example: On an MTT to Zambia the mission was to bring the Zambian
Commando Regiment up to 7-8, 7-10, and 7-20 standard. It was a 90 day
mission, and the Commando Regiment was the elite unit of the Zambian
Army. Without going into useless detail it took 60 days to bring trained
squads and platoons to 7-8 standards. While that was going on 7-10 and
7-20 senior NCOs and Officers were being trained. So by the end of 90
days there was a Battalion live fire Movement to Contact. Nobody got killed.

The point is this: When an infantry private arrives at his first unit he
is CAT IV (undeployable) until after about a year training with his
squad. It took us 90 days to bring an active Zambian infantry unit to
CAT I (combat ready — if they had white NCOs and officers).

So, to be blunt, militia chest thumping leaves me cold.

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This author and I were discussing this the other day, and both of us agree that an inexperienced guy would probably be more desirable to an Infantry unit, than the “experienced” Moolisha “operator”. The primary reason for this is that depending on who taught the “Moogrunt”, he could have been taught WRONG, practiced it WRONG, or he just “knows” he knows what he’s doing, and all three of those situations means you have to get rid of what was WRONG before you can truly square him away correctly.

THE rule of thumb is 1,000 reps will give a person a good “second nature” capability in whatever skill is being practiced. 2,000 to 3,000 reps is what is required to correct a skill that was learned incorrectly. Why would an Infantry unit want to take a chance on the “experienced” non prior service “Moogrunt”. when they can get an inexperienced “Didn’t learn it wrong” recruit?

The amount of experience presented in this post, whether combat and/or as a trainer, is staggering. You will notice a recurring theme, and it isn’t, “You are maggots”, “You are not worthy.” or “You are going to die.”. The theme is “You are not Infantrymen, and shouldn’t fantasize about conducting operations after SHTF like you are an Infantryman.”. Offensive operations…. really? You don’t even understand and haven’t realistically implemented the “in’s” and “out’s” of effective defensive operations yet (remember “familiarity” versus “proficiency”), and you’re talkin’ about offensive ops (this is a generalization based on a number of groups that I have seen over the last 30 years)?

We tell you these things because we want you to succeed and survive. We tell you these things because we understand the reality of the tasks required and training that needs to be achieved before conducting simple, effective defensive operations, let alone, an Offensive Infantry Op. Realistically, I have yet to see a group that has the personnel required to continue an effective defense, while conducting an offensive operation ( do you even know what your ratio should be?). This isn’t some fantasy where you end up with the stash of goodies and organized “militia” personnel the “General” left for you when he said you’d be in charge (Tri-States anyone?), this is reality.

In reality, we will have a hard enough time holding on to what we have (defense ops), so, leavin’ one or two people at the retreat to “hold the fort down.” while your group of “operators” go “light up” the gang bangers down the road is just askin’ for you to lose everything you’ve prepared and put back (yeah, that gang with a few experienced Infantry guys was conducting a recon of your retreat, and just waiting for you to do something stupid like leave a skeleton crew on security).

 

Wanna ignore the reality presented here? Be my guest, it’s only your family, friends, and associates that will pay the high price for your lofty “Operators operating operationally” fantasy. Wanna be an Infantryman? Go in the military, whether active duty or National Guard. Wanna be a responsible protector of loved ones and a survivor of SHTF? Learn how to effectively defend what you’ve got, medically treat what you’ve got (person and animal), feed what you’ve got (people and animals), repair what you’ve got, and pass on what you know. When it comes to the number of categories a Survivalist needs to not only be familiar with, but at least have some proficiency in (hopefully there’s some mastery), the Infantry PFC has it easy by comparison. Think Tactically Proficient, Modern Day, Pioneer, not Spec Ops Soldier. Besides, like I’ve said before, you are not an Infantryman unless you have an Infantry (and that’s the whole organization, even if it’s only at squad level).

None of the people here are making money giving you this hard won advice. None of the people in this post who gave commentary really care what you think of them in relation to their thoughts on this serious topic. We have already earned the martial survivor skills we possess with blood, sweat, and tears, and the weak “The Mean Sergeant hurt my feelings” mewlings of an inexperienced civilian just shows us that that guy is more concerned about his effeminate feelings than his personal and group survival.

Be a small meteor, not a Snowflake.

 

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JCD

American by BIRTH, Infidel by CHOICE

 

 

 

 

 

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52 thoughts on “Are You A “Snowflake” Or A “Meteor”?

  1. As a former EMT-B, I have a hard time getting preppers and regular folks to actually learn real medical care. They think that they will be able to handle things when it happens, it will not happen to them or there will be others who can handle it. Most folks who want to be ‘militia’ or whatever think that taking a class will make them qualified to be ‘militia’. Let me say this real loud and clear! Even after taking Emergency Care Attendant and EMT-B courses, I truly did not learn to be a medic until I got out there and did it over and over again in the field! That will be the same for infantry related skills/training! If you do not take the time/effort to really use the skills needed on a regular basis, then you will fail as an militia infantryman, medic, engineer, communications, mechanic, farmer, intelligence specialist and the list goes on. Preppers are jack of trades who have 1 or 2 real skills and the others skillsets are just wanna be skills! If someone gets hurt feelings for being told the truth on reality, well tough! Reality will not change!

    • Well said. On my Mason Dixon Survivalist Association blog, the masthead has my mantra, “Be a Survivalist who is a “Jack of all Trades”, master of some (preferably the life saving and life protecting arts).”

      • Great mantra there! Thanks for the tip on the new blog! I know that there is no way I could possibly learn enough to be an infantryman. Just the way things are. But I can learn enough not to be a burden. And as far as a medic, can easily help set up a clinic, medevac system and train folks to help on that! As far as learning infantry skills, I think the best I could do would be defensive skills and maybe local patrols. Maybe that’s not a lot but it is realistic!

  2. Thank you for the cold dose of reality.
    In my neighborhood, we have 3 couples in our “group”.
    My wife and I, in our late 40’s and early 50’s respectively, regular blue collar “farmstead” types.
    The second couple are mid 20’s, great at gardening and very hard working, although a bit left of center. The third couple, and this is our ace in the hole, are both former NCO’s, and the husband an infantry Sgt. We are planning to “bug in” and have no illusions about even maintaining effective inner perimeter security, the sleep cycle simply would not permit it,never mind offensive operations. However, our relatively remote location, along with pre planning and prepositioning of arms and supplies should allow us to at least melt away if need be, although that would be an absolute last resort.
    Between us, we have about 300 acres more or less,mostly wooded, so we would at least have some space to trade while the women folk escape.
    With luck and planning, we hope to be able to weather the storm, should it come to that, although God help us all if it does.

  3. Pingback: MDT: Snowflake Or Meteor? | Western Rifle Shooters Association

  4. MDT your observations in this post fit the US Reserves in many ways. How would you rank their skill set on a scale of 1 to 10?

  5. I doubt whether or not the militia folks even understand or could comprehend the mental state that one needs to have to execute offensive operations. To flip the switch and assume a state of controlled savagery only comes in one way and that’s to have experienced it. Even having years of training, you fall short until you have seen the elephant a few times. This doesn’t even touch on the need for discipline in staving off boredom and complacency or the absolute misery often involved in foot movement in any conditions and across any terrain.

    The first question a person needs to answer is whether or not they truly understand and can embrace the words “Never Quit.” By that I mean: Think of the worst physical conditions you have ever been in and add in the feeling of the hungriest, thirstiest, and most tired you have ever been.

    Pictured it??

    Good, now make it worse. That’s the reality of these multi-day ops you think you are going to run.

    Look, these are just ruminations on things internal to the individual and don’t even get into the exponential difficulty of coordination and mental mind-set between each additional member of your “team.” They are also with what you are paying for them.

    I will be honest, as a retired infantry NCO and Officer (to the point of Company Command) with multiple combat deployments I don’t have any illusions about doing anything more than defending what I’ve got. Any offensive operations I do would be at fire team level since that’s the number of other combat arms vets I know and trust that are within in my circle. Even then I would seek any other option than to tac-up and go on the offensive.

  6. On the head of the nail, once again. I don’t know how many wannabes’ I tried very hard to get over that comfort zone hump while a team leader, squad leader, and finally platoon sgt. but it was a lot, and these guys were regulars! When the people start lacking proper sleep and food, that’s when you find out if they have any actual sand. Most will start fizzing out when they have to go without sleep, and short rations make them quit too. To be a qualified infantryman is to know privation, exhaustion, hunger, and no glory. Napoleon is alleged to have said, ” A soldiers’ life is a life of glory, but a dog would not lead it”. Wannabes’ seek something that they know nothing about, and can’t understand. Those damned war movies make it look ok and easy. Rubbish, all of them. In my jungle, the first one who talked out loud in a normal voice would get his/her ass handed to them.

  7. What are the 7-8, 7-10 and 7-20 standard s? I’m not military. Are they versions of the field manual?

  8. I live near a heavy weapons training base. You are not even close to being trained. I hear heavy caliber and large cannon fire all day. Some days they launch a planet buster every half hour. Shakes the whole neighborhood and it’s miles away. When this action comes your way, you are done. Go for the political route folks. Try to elect real, honest, decent people for a change. Practice marksmanship. A sniper maybe, but you ain’t no way trained for a full combat assault by a first world military, and won’t be anytime soon.

  9. I have to admit, I skimmed most of this before bed. What I did read was the same old I’ve read on the internet dozens of times before. Consider that the US hasn’t won a meaningful and committing conflict since WWII. Gonna freak out about me saying that? Don’t be a snow flake! Ha!

    With that said, I did not serve in the military. A doctor punching his ticket at MEPS shut me down. You could say I’m still a bit salty about it. You have greater tactical knowledge and way more experience than me. You do have a blindspot, though.

    You see it doesn’t take a genius or SOF guy to know how to shoot accurately up to a couple hundred yards, stalk around at night undetected, and understand the concept of space, suppressive fire, the importance of hitting first, and maneuvering as a team in a firefight. Shoot if you served in Afghanistan, those guys you fought were a bunch of semi-retarded fanatics and goat-fuckers.

    They fought together though didn’t they? Teamed up against team America on their own turf. They’re still around I hear, the pesky bastards. What’s that 15 years later? Now, I know that it wasn’t total war over there and hands were tied. I’m not blaming you or any other vets personally for the boondoggle with the allied pedophiles against the fanatics.

    Point being, I take the homogeneous locals fighting for a way of life with their backs against the wall as a TEAM against team government that’s just fighting for, well, government and a pay check and maybe some short-inspired bond with the guy next to him. America’s military is a blundering wasteful giant fighting for bankers, MIC, and sugar-cookie politicians. Any militia worth their salt would refuse to be pulled into the military. They’d probably end up wasted and abused.

    Be less of a dick and maybe I’ll bring my guys to you. In the meantime, I’m thinking Max.

    Good luck with business and I’m sure your classes are great.

    JD

    • “Be less of a dick and maybe I’ll bring my guys to you. In the meantime, I’m thinking Max” Wow, the irony im that statement is telling. Maybe you can be considered a “TacGunner” if you wotk hard enough…….

    • You do realize that the homogenous locals you mention aren’t really led by locals but by veterans of now decades of combat and small unit tactics, right?

      I can give a real world example:
      I had to pick up the corpses and do a BDA after an ambush by a fire team sized cell that was so perfectly planned using terrain and timing that I still use that as my default for best SUT I have ever seen.

      Listen, I was good at what I did but honestly I can only hope that I would have been able to plan it as well as they did given their situation. I am humble enough to realize and admit that which seems to be the opposite of the conclusions many are coming to.

      That ambush was truly masterful and it wasn’t planned or executed by an amateur.

      I have zero skin in this argument as I am not affiliated with any training school. My only gain from this is to help as many FREE-FOR survive the unpleasantness as possible. I value this and a couple other training sites not because of how good they are or aren’t at what they do. (Again, never trained here or any other private trainer so I can’t speak on the quality of training) But because they are, from what I have seen, shooting straight with people.

      I want us all to to survive and thrive.

      Training is better than no training. Totally agree, but only if it’s done properly and with realistic expectations. Otherwise, you are just lining up to feed yourself and others around you to the Lions.

      Also, you absolutely should be reading as much as possible. Let the lessons learned the hard way by others be the reason you don’t experience the misery of a complex ambush where you have casualties in the kill zone and no good way to maneuver and get them out. But black and white 2-D words on paper from your chair are much different than to have the snick, snick, snick of automatic small arms fire impacting around you because you didn’t know any better and you unkowingly moseyed into an obvious ambush area.

      Please, please, please don’t buy into thinking you’re a bad motorskooter because you coughed up $600 for a weekend at gun camp.

      Sorry for the long post but I feel this is important.

      • One of the main issues I’ve discussed with people (and a primary reason for tgis post) is the fact that to know how to get to where you want to be capability wise, you first have to do a realistic assessment of where you are, and where you are actually capable of getting to (it ain’t being an Infantryman if you aren’t going in the Infantry, or you are independantly wealthy and do nothing but train). Those that want to think “I/We are as good as an Infantryman/Infantry Squad” (and aren’t even aware of what that means in real time), will never get training that improves their actual capability, simply because they won’t even admit they need to perfect the basics of which they are only familiar “Cuz we read the FM”. They are more fixated on what they can tell people, than they are on getting as good as they REALISTICALLY can.

        • Candidly, I’m surprised that this is even a thing.

          I can’t fathom where one could claim mastery of something without actually doing it. I suppose an analogy would be to think oneself a master mechanic by reading a Hayne’s manual. Or a farmer because they can grow a garden (I can’t keep a squash plant alive to save my life.)

          We don’t know what we don’t know and I think you are fighting against ignorance and ego here, which is an unfortunate combination.

          Keep fighting the good fight and just remember, these people through all their faults and foibles, want the same thing we do: Liberty and Prosperity.

          Good luck, Godspeed and may God Bless.

      • Good addition to the conversation, Poncho. I will always listen to guys that have combat experience. I think we are all on the same page here: team freedom, team nation of laws not men, team liberty must prevail.

        I work am a health and fitness coach. The key for me is helping people get past ambivalence about change. I don’t do that by calling them cupcake, or fatso, or piggy. I do it by getting them talking about change. Calling guys that are doing their best to dry-fire train, network with like-minds, and shoot on the weekends because the freedom of them and their people matters “freedumb” ain’t gonna help anyone. Because realistically, they’re never gonna be official military. They’re irregular. They have to be built up, not torn down, in my opinion.

        I’m psyched that sites like this exist. I read them all the time for info that me and my friends put to practice in our get-together. I came from WRSA expecting this article to have useful info. But I just felt a little insulted. I think guys willing to put it on the line, pay for range time, pay for ammo, pay for guns and optics and webbing and rucks and boots and everything deserve a pat on the back. Afterall, it was guys like that won the War for Independence. How many active military can you imagine weathering a winter at Valley Forge after not being paid for over a year?

        Just something to I consider and just my very humble opinion.

        Stay free, stay strong

        • ” I came from WRSA expecting this article to have useful info. But I just felt a little insulted. I think guys willing to put it on the line, pay for range time, pay for ammo, pay for guns and optics and webbing and rucks and boots and everything deserve a pat on the back.” The “useful info” in that article only applied to those that bloviate about being Militia Infantry, “Operators”, and Guerrillas, but are clueless as to what Infantry really is. To most, it’s a cool factor thing, cuz “being a grunt is cool”,and is in right now, right? Why were you insulted? Because none of it applied to you (why would that insult you?), or because it did? Great, they’ve bought a bunch of gear. Good, they paid for a class and range time. Those are good things as long as there is follow through on what is realistic. Anything else is posturing for cool factor selfies on FB. There is a part 2 to this incoming as we speak, I think it’s more of what you are looking for than this last post was.

    • “Shoot if you served in Afghanistan, those guys you fought were a bunch of semi-retarded fanatics and goat-fuckers.”

      And you would know this, how?

      I did fight them. I respect them far, far more than you.

  10. I’m a little late to the party here, but I have a question for the assembled accomplished individuals. As one of those people who will never have the 3,000+ hours of combat training would it make more sense to educate oneself on insurgent skills? That is a skill set that would seem to be more applicable to the “civilian combatant” who will never have the depth of combat training a professional soldier will.

    • If by “insurgent skills” you are talking about so called guerrilla (which means, “small war”) skills/training/tactics you are still talking about infantry skills/training/tactics.

      What distinguishes the insurgent/guerrilla from the infantryman? The answer is nothing. The distinction is not in the “what,” the distinction is in the “how.” In other words the distinction is not in the skills/training/tactics, the distinction is in their application.

      I give you an example: You go to any “terrorist” training camp in Turkey or Jordan (US allies) and you will find an infantry Basic/AIT/OUSUT facility. It has never been any different in any guerrilla army.

      S//

      • Perhaps I’ve missed the answer, but as someone who has trained full contact mma for years, I’d tell a beginner they aren’t going to be some bad ass brawler overnight or even weeks, but you can point out a useful path based on what they are looking to do.
        In that vein what is the equivalent answer for the non professional combatant?
        There is the obvious PT basics, marksmanship basics etc. But what would be a constructive path beyond that, for those who are looking to do the best they can with what they have? We aren’t talking about some militia wannabe’s, just the slightly above average joe who will actually maintain physical conditioning and practice basic marksmanship.
        No we will never be high speed low drag super soldier, but we can do better than chasing our tails. The hard truth put forth is appreciated and educational. The question now that you have shown the reality of the matter is what skill set to best pursue.

  11. To answer the question you posed over at WRSA. I made a statement about the attention level of “average PFC’s” and you took that to mean that I was implying some in depth knowledge that you assumed I could not have unless I was a vet. Here is a little insight, ALL average 19 year old males need to be told how to take care of themselves. Its not some trait unique to the soldier class. I work with teenagers and young adults. Some of them are cadets going into service academy’s. Some of them have returned from basic and advanced training, and while I can see a difference in their level of maturity from the 17 year old that I knew before, they are still dumb kids. They have little life experience and little understanding of priorities. Its okay because they are still young and thats expected. I was only pointing this out because I think it
    plays a part in the length of time it take to instruct them on ANY material.

    But you mistook intent, you focused on the wrong part of my post. You assumed because I question the premise of your position that I was in support of the counter position. Thats not the case.
    The problem here as I see it, is one of terminology and intent. Maybe mindset plays a part in it as well. A clear understanding of what is being said and the intent behind what is being said will go a long way toward soothing aching butthurt.

    Lets start with the idea that “you will never be infantry”. By the basic definition of the word “infantry” this is an untrue statement. The African troops your contributor spoke of were Infantry even before his training cadre spent several months training them, they just were not very good infantry. That is perhaps a more clearly stated position. That to be EFFECTIVE infantry you must x…

    Now training. I have taken a significant number of classes over the last 10 years. Everything from basic defensive pistol all the way to a tactical medical class. Now at no time did I consider the class itself to be the end of training. I took the classes to be instructed on HOW and WHAT to train. I did not let it be the end of my practice. It is incumbent on the student to continue their practice between instruction. I very much agree with your position that attendance at a block of classes alone will not produce the desired results. It take significant repetition to ingrain the concepts and classes alone will not give you that.
    In your training your instructors were tasked with transforming you from a basic recruit to an effective infantryman. They had a limited amount of time to do that, and that means they made sure that you got the repetitions in to ingrain that block of instruction. Those of us not in the service do not have that limited time constraint. We do have to work the practice into our normal daily routines but we have as many days to practice until the world ends. What we have to make sure of is that we are practicing the concepts correctly. That is incumbent on the instructor to make sure that in their limited time with us that they assure that we know what and how a concept is so that we can work the repetitions correctly. You had face to face time for your entire training period. We do not have that, but its not a problem that cant be overcome.
    I am not a Max guy, I have never taken one of his courses so I have no idea how he instructs. Dont take my statement about instructors as anything other than a general one but that is why we have to be very selective in who we chose to train with. I would not train with an instructor that assures students that all you have to do is take their classes and you are good to go. Thats retarded. The student must always continue to practice.

    As far as intent, if you were a doctor they would tell you that you have a terrible bed side manner. There is something to be said for stomping the sacred cows and I am all for that but there should always be a “but” statement that follows the stomping. I assume that you will get to that. If you are intending to tell people that they cant get to place x BUT its okay because place y is just as good then I am interested in hearing what place y is. If your intent is you cant get to place x so you might as well leave it to other people who have been to place x, and thats going to involve payments or ass kissing then, well that dog will not hunt.

    • “I made a statement about the attention level of ‘average PFC’s’ and you took that to mean that I was implying some in depth knowledge that you assumed I could not have unless I was a vet. Here is a little insight, ALL average 19 year old males need to be told how to take care of themselves. Its not some trait unique to the soldier class”
      I was going by what you actually said, not your secretly implied meaning (I can’t read your mind, and don’t you dare condescend like we all don’t know what the average 19 year old is like). PFC’s are not “average’ 19 year olds. If they were, the military would be a lot larger.
      “The problem here as I see it, is one of terminology and intent. Maybe mindset plays a part in it as well. A clear understanding of what is being said and the intent behind what is being said will go a long way toward soothing aching butthurt”
      Sorry about your “butthurt”, apparently you would have a hard time as a “Private”.
      As to the statement, “Lets start with the idea that “you will never be infantry”, I’ll let someone with experience training Infantry around the world address this. Concerning the “bedside manner” you addressed. It has developed over a period of 29 years of dealing with hardheaded Privates, legendary moolisha wannabe’s, and inexperienced “kernal” kmowitalls. What is the root cause for what you deem to be negative in this bedside manner? I’m tired! I’m tired of the “wanna be’s” who talk shit, but will never put any true effort into becoming what they aspire to be because they are all fluff on social media and no substance in the field. I’m tired of the “Resident ‘SUT’ Experts” who try to explain what needs to be done when they have neither the background, training, or actual desire to fix or improve anything other making even more people looking to them as the “expert”. I’m tired of young men jumping on the “We’re bad ass operator militia” band wagon, because it’s convenient, but aren’t even willing to serve in a National Guard Infantry unit because “that’s workin’ for the man!”. No, it’s TOO REAL is what that is. It’s too time consuming (but apparently, according to you, you have all the time in the world to train till the end of the world, but omly at YOUR CONVENIENCE). It’s too much sacrifice. It’s too much effort both physically, mentally and emotionally. Oh yeah, and it could be too FInal! Doea this “cluephone” I’ve handed you give you some insight into why my bedside manner is in the shape it is? On another note, there is a follow on “Part 2” post coming up that will give insight into the “what” and the “how”.

      • I cant speak for the militia dweebs, I dont run in those circles. I dont subscribe to their concepts or their motivations. The only reason I even provided an opinion on your posts was because I thought that you were to broad in your condemnation, and that you were sweeping up many people who might wrongly see themselves as your target due to unclear intent.
        It was not MY butthurt, or even YOUR butthurt that needed soothing. It was those non-militia people who thought that you were shitting in their lunch pail. I dont care what the militia types think, and you can heap shit on them till you are blue in the face but it will not matter. They are what they are, but there are others that I do have a care what they think.
        There is implication in what you have written. Like it or not your association with Sgt Barry has cast a shadow of doubt for some people on what you write. Thats not the case with me but thats only because of your association with DTG, who is a man I know and count as a friend. Because of the positions that Sgt Barry has made clear, many people took your intent with these posts to be supporting that position. Anytime you get in front of a group of people and tell them “you cant be what I am because you didnt do what I did” while the intent may be honest, it still makes you sound like an elitist asshole. You can coat it as a cluephone or a cluebat or what ever term you want to use but to people faced with a situation that indicates that they need to be something close to what you were in order to survive, you sound like an asshole telling them to fuck off an die.
        You are telling people that they have no hope. That nothing they do will matter because they dont have 3000 hours to train and be even the most basic level of grunt. You add that people just need to focus on defensive operations because offensive operations will be too hard. But you dont define those two terms in plane language that the non-military will understand. So on the face of your position you have told people to get in their retreat or defensive perimeter or what ever place they call “Safe” hold up and wait for the bad guys to pick them off one at a time. They cant read your mind, they are reading what you said but they are also reading the implications behind those words in a broader context. They are putting two and two together and inferring that you are instructing people to be targets for the likes of Sgt Barry. Why is it a shock to you that people will reject what you are saying?
        The movement for whatever that word is worth, is made up of very smart men and women who are very self motivated. The serious ones, I am not talking about Militia types, are investing time and money with the intent on becoming as good as they can be. Speaking for myself I have no problem hearing you say “you are 43 years old and you cant physically do what 20 year olds do” I get that, every time I go on a backpack trip with the Scout troop that fact is clearly made to me. Accounting for the physical limitations however, we have to have the mindset that we can achieve a level of competence that assures that we are competitive, otherwise what the fuck are we doing this for?
        Here is your cluephone back.

        • “I cant speak for the militia dweebs, I dont run in those circles. I dont subscribe to their concepts or their motivations. The only reason I even provided an opinion on your posts was because I thought that you were to broad in your condemnation, and that you were sweeping up many people who might wrongly see themselves as your target due to unclear intent”
          So you don’t speak for the “militia dweebs”, but you speak for everyone else (I don’t believe you)? Who would that be, the “Situationally Aware Citizen” (SACs)? My “condemnation” was of those ignorant , inexperienced,, and overly confident, but well meaning civilians that believe they are gonna go actively conduct operations that are difficult enough for trained professionals, let alone someone who “Read the Ranger handbook”, or worse yet, got training from someone else who took a few classes, and now figures they are a trainer and can teach it. From the email feedback I and others have received, you (of the “Not militia dweeb” tribe) are a small minority.
          My association with SFC Barry is none of your fuckin’ business, and I would ask you a few questions in regards to that. 1) Did you ever read the Resister, and if you did, did you ever ask yourself why SFC Barry has changed his tune regarding everything he wrote in TR? 2) Are you ascribing to me, every belief and desire that SFC Barry has, simply because of our “association” (he’s actually a very good friend, and has been for a long time)? 3) Should I infer from your present or past associates what your beliefs or desires are, simply because you were “associates”?
          Here’s the thing, “You can’t be what we are/were without doing what we do/did (BUT YOU DON’T NEED TO BE).” Is that plain enough for you? Oh God, he’s an “elitist” (a person who believes that a society or system should be led by an elite). When it comes to running combat operations, you’re Damned right I’m an elitist, and any combat arms Vet worth his salt is too if he has any concerned about the overall welfare of those involved. Here’s the thing, you can/could have do/done what we do/did, but you chose/choose not to. But yet you still bitch about us being elitists. You’re the guy who buys a fishin’ boat, goes out on some calm water a couple times, and now thinks he’s gonna go do commercial fishing in New England waters during the Fall season. I have never implied or actually told anyone to “fuck off and die”, or that they have no hope, and implying that I have makes you an ignoramus with a reading comprehension problem. You make out like we treat you like you are stupid, then get pissed when I don’t explain simple terms like “Defensive” and “Offensive”. Make up my mind, are you guys a bunch of illiterate, dull eyed retards, or are you rational, generally above median, adults (like I believe you are)? So you’re tellin’ me you didn’t like DTG’s educated, 3,000 hour training requirement assessment? Tough. It comes from a professional that knows his craft as a mil trainer (besides according to you,, you have all the time till “the world ends” to master the info/training, right?). If your 43 year old ass is getting smoked backpacking with Boy Scouts, you might want to consider upping your PT…..just sayin’. You keep sayin’ “us” and “they” a lot, in reference to those who I/We upset. Here’s the thing about you “representing” a group of the supposed butthurt, I don’t buy it. I believe you are speaking for yourself and only for yourself, because it’s something that applies to something you are doing. I guarantee I have received a shit ton more emails than you have about this post, and by my last count, 97% were positive. I do appreciate your assessment of what you think about the militias however. I’m sure they were very interested to hear how you really feel about them. BTW, the “cluephone” was for you to keep, bur honestly, I figured you’d toss it since it didn’t tell you what you wanted to hear. Thanks for proving me right…..again.

          • Please slow you roll a little bit and understand I am not trying to attack.

            “Here’s the thing, “You can’t be what we are/were without doing what we do/did (BUT YOU DON’T NEED TO BE).”

            YES! and if you had just said it this way from the beginning then you might not be getting any negative feedback.
            I thought I was clear when I was speaking for myself and when I was offering an assessment of what others said. I simply read replies from people on your posts that were negative. It does not take much analysis to see why people were upset with what you wrote. My last post was not all my personal opinion thats why I used the general “they”, I thought I made that clear when I said “Thats not the case with me..” and later when I said “speaking for myself” but maybe I didn’t. Apologies, it has lead to you assuming something not the case. I attempted to distill the negative comments and spell out the motivations behind them so that you might see why people who are not of the militia movement might take your comments in a negative way. I dont ascribe every belief that Sgt Barry has to you, but some people clearly do they said it in their comments. That’s all I was saying. Again apologies, I dont want you to think thats my motivation or the source of my questions.

            I dont agree with Sgt Barry on a lot of things, but I respect him, just like I respect you and your opinion. I dont however just open my head and let people pour stuff in it even if they have an experienced opinion. I question things, your experience may be rare or even unique and while there may be lessons to be learned from it its not always useful. The only way I will understand that is by asking questions, even questions that you may think I am not qualified to ask.
            You may think my opinion or my questions are not valid because I was not in the service, that because of that I do not have a foundation to base opinion or questions on. I can read, and I can ask questions of other people who have direct experience (a lot in this case) and from that I can draw conclusions and with the limited experience that I do have (limited training from combat vets) I can form valid questions and ideas. All that said, I am not even questioning the details or trying to ask you questions about tactics or procedures or any thing like that. The only thing I am questioning is the training process and the position that those in a non-service setting cant learn the same material.
            I do value Toms opinion and I will accept his number of 3K hours as a baseline. I would ask him however how much of that training within that 3000 hours is concerned with information and procedures that are not relevant to those not in a large military organization? How much revolves around the service specific way of doing things? In other words how much of that 3000 hours is relevant to what I need to actually know? For now lets just say its some subset of 3000 hours. Now take that subset of 3000 hours. How much of that time is influenced by the time it takes to train those silly 19year olds? We are dealing with averages here. the military, being a large government organization has to plan for the average, then build the schedule around how long it will take those averages to achieve the goals. So if the training plan says run the iteration 100 times, how much leeway do the cadre have in that? Do they have to run it 100 times or if they see that the trainees are getting it can they cut that short? Its safe to say that within a group of trainees there will be those that pick up the skills sooner than others. Then there will be those that lag the others. You indicated that they would be moved back a class in order to keep them from holding back the majority, but the ones who pick it up sooner do they still need to run it 100 times with the others that are still trying to get it? Additional practice is good but how much of that time can be cut out if you get it?

            Thats all I was trying to get at here. Just from a training perspective it would seem to me that the civilian training environment is very different from the military one, We dont need all of the information that is transferred in that 3000 hours and because we are doing it in smaller groups with a higher trainer to student ratio we may be able to absorb the concepts quicker than that 3000 hours. Because we are adults (for the most part) we may have a different mindset and maturity than 19year olds and that may contribute to us again learning the information quicker than that 3000 hours. Thats not even addressing the idea that the missions are different and the goals are not the same. Its not even getting into the idea that the weekend class is not the primary time of getting the iterations in. It is when the concept is transmitted, the iterations have to take place outside of the weekend class. Thats what I mean by “everyday till the end of the world”, in your service environment you have to get the training done as soon as you can so that you can move to a line unit. The civilian does not have that constraint. You have to condense the 3000 hours into a short calendar time frame. The civilian can spread that 3000 hours out over a much longer calendar time (till they run out of time).

            As far as me personally, yes when I read your posts it was a kick in the balls, because like I said what am I doing all this for if its some impossible goal to achieve? I do train with combat vets on a fairly consistent basis (Rangers and Marines and Air Force if you care to know). No, I am not the guy who buys a bass boat and thinks I can go commercially fish. I dont overestimate my abilities at all. I would not say I get smoked on the hikes, I just know what I am capable of doing before I am, and I know the young guys still have gas in the tank at that point. I do need more PT and less fuel storage around the middle.
            I have been called a very smart guy and capable by people I respect and have the ability to make that judgement so I guess I can agree with them on that. I do have skill sets that are in the same vain as your soldier skills, and I am competent enough to train them to people (land nav for example). I work Search and Rescue with the Air Force auxiliary. I have trained those 17 to 19 year old cadets with material written and produced by the Air Force on ground team SAR operations. I have also trained adults on that same material. So I am not writing from a completely uninformed or inexperienced position. Is that the same as combat? Hell no, but its structured training in similar skills where peoples lives are at risk so it is relevant.

          • “YES! and if you had just said it this way from the beginning then you might not be getting any negative feedback”
            I have said this MULTIPLE TIMES! Have you even read any of that in previous posts?
            Tell you what, wait for part two to come out and see if that answers your questions.

    • There is a very good reason why the Dick Act of 1903 abrogated the The Militia Act of 1792 and created the National Guard. That very good reason was civilians playing at soldier. Throughout the 19th Century the Regular Army bitterly complained that the States’ Militia were indigestible when called into service by Congress; the Spanish-American War was the final straw. Your comments about 19 year-olds (I’m guessing you are a “youth councillor” of some kind) drives home the point professionals are making about the difference between a private and a militiaman.

      I will agree that the average 19 year-old is a dumbshit. The difference between the 19 year-old dumbshit who enlists in the infantry, and the 19 year-old dumbshit who joins a “militia” is that the Army will turn the 19 year-old dumbshit into an infantryman, and all the militia will have is a poorly trained 19 year-old dumbshit with a gun. After 10 or so years the Army will have a more or less good squad leader; after 10 or so years the militia will have the same member of Joe’s Armed Gang they started out with.

      There is always the bitter complaint from the militia crowd that the mean old professionals don’t do anything to help them. Speaking only for myself here is my best help. Quit pretending to be something you are not. Until you wake up to that you cannot be helped and there is no hope for you.

      S//

      • I agree to an extent Sgt.
        I think there was a lot of political motivations for the Dick act but thats not really important.
        There is very much a place for a volunteer “sometimes” force in the overall force structure. The Air Force agrees, as they have integrated CAP into the “Total Force” under 1st Air Force. Thats all still getting hashed out so time will tell what it actually translates to, but we have at least cleared some of the administrative hurdles that used to be in the way.
        At any rate we are a true militia, in that we are a Congressional chartered, national organization with a rank structure and heaps of paperwork. We have a valid clearly defined mission, that supports the Air Force and Homeland Security. We just dont get paid to do it.
        The Coast Guard also has an Auxiliary that is a true militia. They treat them better than the Air Force treats us in that they integrate them even more. If you look on many CG vessels and aircraft you will find volunteers from the Aux. filling roles that are also filled by rank and file Coast Guard members. They report to the missions that they can, and they dont get paid but otherwise they are uniformed and conduct themselves in exactly the same manner as the enlisted. They are only prevented from conducting arrests and in all honesty thats purely a liability issue.
        The Army should have a similar organization and they do lean on the SDF’s where they exists to provide support functions and while I think the roles could be expanded and provide more functionality, including combat if need be, thats a very different animal than Joes armed gang.

  12. For the most part, I agree with what you have said. I would point out that even in the army, not everyone is on the battlefield. There are a lot of veterans who only fired a rifle in basic one time. (Air Force) I am old, out of shape, and sick, but my job in the sevice, was gathering intelligence, translating that into English, and analyzing that intelligence. I am a pretty good shot, but I have no illusions about being a member of a squad of infantry. There are many ways to support those who will be in the field. Supplying food, ammo, information, medical care, and even transportation will also be important. There are many that would be a liability as a squad member, who can contribute to those who are.
    I also believe that any amount of good training in the use of firearms is better than none…. Not all of the killing in a war happens on the battlefield. I understand your point but don’t discount the contributions that those who aren’t up to humping over bad terrain, and fighting as a cohesive untit may make.

  13. Pingback: Snowflake Or Meteor, Part II: Becoming A Meteor | Western Rifle Shooters Association

  14. The most obvious point that John Wayne Wannabees miss is that, barring “special” circumstances, Big Daddy Guvmint would only “call out the militia” if A) something gigantic caught them with their butts in the wind and they don’t have enough “reliable” assets to go around or B) they’ve already used up everything better and are throwing you to the wolves while they make a break for it.
    And those “special” circumstances? Convincing fools to give up even more intel on themselves than they already do, to better classify them for later “disposition” (a brief study of the Bolshevik Revolution would be most illuminating in this respect).
    Militias don’t become politically powerful by waiting for someone to “call them out”, they form and grow to power spontaneously and organically with the support of the people, or they become bandits.

  15. . My “condemnation” was of those ignorant , inexperienced,, and overly confident, but well meaning civilians that believe they are gonna go actively conduct operations that are difficult enough for trained professionals, let alone someone who “Read the Ranger handbook”, or worse yet, got training from someone else who took a few classes, and now figures they are a trainer and can teach it.

  16. . My “condemnation” was of those ignorant , inexperienced,, and overly confident, but well meaning civilians that believe they are gonna go actively conduct operations that are difficult enough for trained professionals, let alone someone who “Read the Ranger handbook”, or worse yet, got training from someone else who took a few classes, and now figures they are a trainer and can teach it.

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