Firearms For Freedom and Forage-Part 3, Hunting Long Guns

Firearms For Freedom and Forage-Part 3, Hunting Long Guns

A semi-auto centerfire rifle (M1A Socom) left, large capacity, pump action shotgun (Mossberg 590A1) center, and a semi-auto rimfire rifle (Ruger 10/22) is about as versatile as one can get if you’re trying to cover both defensive and hunting needs with a small selection of long guns.

I started hunting when I was 7 years old. Like most, the first firearm I used to hunt with was a .22 Long Rifle chambered bolt gun. Many an “Adventure” I went on with that rifle. First thing I ever killed with it was a poor old mangy fox (did him a favor). Dad and I were sittin’ up in a tree the first day of deer season ( I was not deer hunting yet), and Dad said, “Hey, why don’t you shoot that fox when he goes by.”. I look up ( I was probably daydreamin, thinkin’ about being the sniper in my favorite picture from the Civil War) and see a fox out in a field runnin’ from right to left. I threw my rifle up, pulled the trigger and dropped him.

Yup, that was about what it looked like, I even had the canteen hanging on the branch.

Ended up being one of the best shots I’ve ever made. 70 yards, right through his temple and with peep sights no less. My Dad also gave me the family nickname, that I’ve had for decades, that day. In a worst case scenario, it’s hard to go wrong with a .22LR rifle if you can shoot it accurately. It will take game far larger than many think possible, if you can accurately place a bullet in the animal’s vitals.

Many articles and videos have been done on what makes the best “One” firearms for survival. The first response should always be, “What are you trying to ‘Survive’?” I’ve already given my thoughts on long guns and handguns for defensive “Survival” needs, so now we’ll get into what I’ve found useful in the long gun category for foraging/hunting situations.

The two most useful hunting long guns I have. A Ruger Scout Rifle and a Savage model 24 in .223Rem. over a 20Ga. (3″ chamber) barrel. Pictured above the Scout rifle is a Savage “Four Tenner” .410 insert for the 20 Ga. barrel. BTW, a box of 20Ga shotgun shells fits perfectly into an M16 20 round magazine, 4 mag pouch.

Savage Model 24.

Throughout the last century, Savage/Stevens Arms made a number of combination guns ranging from .22LR over .410bore to 30-30Win over 12Ga., and in various barrel lengths. Many military pilot survival kits had one of these in it back in the 40’s and 50’s (started off being made by Stevens Arms). When I was 14, I bought my first rifle. I chose a Savage 24V Series D. This was the model with the .223 Remington upper barrel superimposed onto a 20 Gauge lower barrel.

“Most versatile rifle I’ve ever had.” is the first phrase to come to mind. “Best minimum chamberings to do most jobs.” is the second. The barrels are 24 inches long, with the .223Rem barrel having a 1-14 twist and the 20Ga is a Modified choke and patterns very well. I have killed pretty much every common game animal in my area with this firearm.

The .223Rem is a little light for deer, but will work if you know where to place the bullet (central nervous system shot). The .223Rem is also one of the most available and popular centerfire cartridges on the market today. The 20 gauge is a great hunting round, and only second to the 12 gauge in popularity. By the way, if you have a 20Ga, but want 12Ga performance, use the 3″ Magnum in it. Same payload in both the 2 3/4″ 12Ga and a 3″ 20Ga.

This long gun’s chamberings fill my “Mandatory Minimums” and “Readiily Available” requirements very well. After starting out with iron sights as a kid, I upgraded a year later with a Bushnell 3-9x scope. Not long ago, I downgraded the magnification to a Leupold 1-4x, because I wanted as low power as I could go for using the shotgun barrel.

Combo guns like this one and the one mentioned below are also good candidates for cartridge converters ( a future post), like my Savage “Four Tenner” .410bore adapter to fire .410 shotgun shells out of the 20Ga barrel. Unfortunately, they no longer make the Savage M24. If you find one on the used market, snatch it up. You won’t be disappointed in the versatility of this long gun.

Remington SPR-94 

Remington SPR-94 12 gauge over .308 Winchester

As you can tell from the above Savage 24 commentary, I’m a big fan of versatile firearms, and Combo Guns in particular. The Remington SPR-94 was their cleaned up version of a Russian Baikal copy of the Valmet 412. Valmet also made this firearms for Savage under the Model 2400 label.

My SPR-94 shoots 2 inches at 100 meters with the .308Win barrel. It has interchangeable chokes and patterns very well out to 40 yards. I like the hammer option better on my 24 than I do the double triggers on the SPR-94, but it works out fine, once you get used to them. The front sight post is the same as an AK post, in case you need to replace it. I’ve put about 300 rounds through the rifle, and approximately 500 rounds through the shotgun barrel. If I’m bear hunting, this has always been the rifle I carry. This is due to being able to choose from a 180gr Remington PSP .308Win bullet or a 3″ Brenneke 12Ga slug at a moments notice. I’m a bigger fan of the .223Rem/20Ga combination of cartridges for a survival gun than I am the .308Win/12Ga. combo. I believe the .223/20Ga is more versatile choice.

Ruger Scout Rifle 

I’ve written a few posts that talked about many of the aspects of the Ruger Scout Rifle I use for large game hunting. It is a solid, “Mauser Style” action. With the 18.7″ barrel, the overall length is approximately 40 inches. Total weight with the PA 4-14x Orion optic and the XS Sights extended scout rail is 9 3/4lbs. (7.3lbs. with nothing extra). With good ammo and the PA optic, it will shoot into an inch at 200 meters. To get more of my impressions of this rifle, check out the other posts already written.

Mossberg 500 pump action Shotgun

Mossberg M500 series 12gauge shotgun shown with an 18.5″ rifle sight, smoothbore barrel-top. A 24″ rifled barrel with scope on a cantilever mount- center and a 28″ vent-rib smoothbore barrel with interchangeable chokes mounted on the action.

One of the most versatile long guns, especially for hunting, is the shotgun. I have used Mossberg shotguns for well over 30 years, and can say they are not only solid and reliable guns, but they are geared towards the budget conscious and the left handed crowds. As you can see above, the shotgun pictured can do not only the “Upland/small game” (28″ barrel) thing, it can double as a long range (200 meter) deer rifle, and a short, handy defensive weapon (18.5″ barrel).

The Mossberg M500 is always the first long gun I recommend to new shooters who want their firearm to be a “Jack of All Trades”. It is easy to shoot, available in all the popular gauges. It has many different barrel options, is basically ambidextrous and finally, is durable and reliable. Not much more needs to be said about the specs and options you look for in a firearm, whether for hunting or defense.

Old School

Left to right, Springfield M22 .22LR, Springfield 1903 .30-06, A Savage/Stevens 311 in 12Ga and one in 20Ga.

I’m a big fan of “Old School” firearms, and have been using them since I first started hunting. My advice on any long gun you get to hunt (not as a collector piece) with is this. Look at the track record of the firearm you are getting. The ones pictured above have been maintenance free (except for cleaning) for decades, and they’ve been use…..A LOT!

Cartridges used by the four long guns from left to right. .22LR, .30-06 Springfield, 12 Gauge, 20 Gauge

Another criteria to look at is the chambering. . 22LR is a no brainer for versatility and popularity. The .30-06Springfield and 30-30 Winchester are two more wildly popular and reliable game getters. Finally, 12 and 20 gauge shotguns are generally the “Go to” gauges when it comes to shotgun selection, and a good old double barrel or pump action will probably do everything you ask of it. The Stevens 311 20Ga. pictured above also has the versatility of having two of the Savage “Four Tenner” .410 bore inserts so it can be a “Starter” shotgun for a youngster or new shooter.

Ruger 10/22

At the top of the post, you’ll see a pic with a Ruger 10/22 on the right side. I’ve had that 10/22 for well over 30 years and it’s never failed to fire and hit what I was shooting at. It’s had in excess of 8,000 rounds through it, and still keeps pluggin’ along. The most recent addition to it was a PA 6x ACSS optic, and like the rifle, it is simple, sturdy and versatile.

As has been said before, the .22LR cartridge is versatile and will get the job done, but, as Clint Eastwood said, “A man’s gotta know his limitations.”. Precise shots and knowing your holdovers are prerequisite for success with a .22LR firearm. Lightweight weapons and being able to carry a lot of ammo are the advantages the .22LR has in a survival scenario.

If you can carry a bigger caliber, and your survival hinges on literally, “Bringin’ home the bacon.”, use a bigger caliber. If you need light weight and are just going for small game, use the .22LR in a 10/22. You don’t need any more than that.

Henry Arms AR-7

I started out with a Charter Arms AR-7 about 30 couple years ago. I bought a Henry Arms version of this rifle about 13 years back. While the Henry didn’t need any tweekin’ after I bought it, the Charter Arms version did. I had to ream out the chamber’s base a little to make the CA model feed reliably. Other than that, they’ve both been reliable and “Minute of Squirrel” accurate since I’ve owned them.

The AR-7 is very spartan as long guns go. It is a semi-auto .22LR takedown rifle that has a 2 aperture rear peep sight (you have a large and small aperture size to choose from), and a plastic (aluminum on the CA), drift adjustable, front sight. It comes with two 8 round mags (1 with the original Armalite and CA versions and apparently now 3 with the new Henry version which also has a built in scope rail). It weighs 3.5lbs. and collapses into a pretty small package. It does the job if you need a lightweight, compact semi-auto for a survival kit, but if you can take the length and weight, go with a 10/22.

That’s it for now, next up in the “Firearms For Freedom and Forage” series will be “Part 4-Hunting Handguns”.

JCD,

"Parata Vivere"-Live Prepared.
Here Comes The “Fatal Funnel”….?

Here Comes The “Fatal Funnel”….?

 

 

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According to the ’94 AWB criteria, this M1A was still OK since it only had a threaded barrel and a detachable mag. 10 round AWB “acceptable” mag in gun. 20 rounder below it.

I haven’t written anything “Politics” related in a while. It’s mostly because I’m sick of feeling as if I’m beating my head against a brick wall in trying to convince those who might read what I write that certain things (like history) are important in weighing your present decisions.

Decades ago, I used to be involved with a group that was pretty squared away. We leaned towards training for offensive “Take it to the bad guy” type missions, instead of my present Survivalist defensive mindset. I realized in my late 20’s that all that “Offensive mindset” would do, as civilians, is get us killed needlessly and thus, I corrected my direction in preparedness and training. The situation described below was during my participation in the group mentioned above.

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A training pic circa 1993 before the ’94 AWB was implemented

Here’s the situation. The House of Reps passes the “Federal Assault Weapons Ban” in May of 1994. My friends and I thought we could read the writing on the wall, so we started preparing for what we thought was the inevitable “war”. Over the course of the Summer of 1994, I purchased about $2,000 worth of gear, weapons and ammo.

Hell, I remember making thirteen hundred dollars worth of purchases in one day from Centerfire Systems and Classic Firearms, that summer. This purchase involved two RPK type AK’s, 5 cases of ammo, and five 75 round drums. The group I was involved with at the time used the AKM type rifle as the standard, and well, you get the picture.

Some other things that impending (and what we believed was coming with it) ban brought about was a need for caches and a recon of areas to set up base camps and RON’s. We systematically went about checking and designating those areas in a 50 mile circle, and putting “under” (reports and all), excess/extra gear and needed equipment.

What were we thinking? Well, first we believed the Senate would pass the AWB (it was close like the House vote was) when it got to them (I think we were figuring the end of Summer). Second, we knew Clinton would sign it. Third, many of us were under the impression that Slick Willie would be more than happy to bring in UN troops to assist in a more draconian firearms ban that he was rumored to be floating with the help of certain Gov officials.

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A training pic after the ’94 AWB taken in approximately 1996.

Were our preps in vain? I don’t believe so. The purchase of those firearms and mags at that time, paved the way for better purchases later after a few were sold for 3x the cost. Besides, that activity by the government PROPERLY motivated us to do something we should have been doing in the first place. Was the rumor (#3) correct? Who knows. It didn’t happen, but everyone knows he was definitely considering something like that. Keep in mind what Feinstein said about her gun ban opinion. She said she would ban every firearm from civilian possession if she could get 51% of the vote.

Good things that came from the AWB? The concentration on designing reliable, compact pistols like the Glock 26 and 30 because 10 round mags….. An appreciation for only having to pay $15 for a quality AR mag. Being able to easily find a large assortment of quality semi auto mil type rifles without having to drive 2 or 3 hours to that obscure, out of the way gun shop, then  payin’ $1500 for a “Pre Ban” rifle that was only $350 four years earlier.

I tell you that story from exactly 25 years ago to tell you this. Don’t panic (unless you don’t have anything gun related). Keep calm. Make a realistic purchase plan if you haven’t already, and concentrate on the basics (solid, reliable rifle with 7 mags, reliable pistol with 3 mags, and ammo for both) . I told you almost three years ago that President Trump’s election was nothing more than a brief reprieve. If President Trump does what many believe he wants to do on gun control, it was a little more brief than I believed.

Here’s the thing though. He hasn’t done it yet. He talks a lot of smack, then usually backs off the rhetoric a little. We’ve been at this point a few times in his last three years. Yes, he banned bump stocks. So what? Reagan banned the production of new machine gun receivers made after 1986. My personal belief is that bump stocks are an effeminate affectation of someone who wants to play, but isn’t serious about realistic weapon’s usage. Kinda like the “Operator” selfies by “Never Been-But Wannabees” on social media.

Regardless, I don’t believe he should have done anything to their availability or legality, useful or not. I personally think he banned them as a token on the alter of  the “Commie Gun Grabbers” so he could calm the BS after the Vegas shooting, but, who knows. He wheels and deals so it’s anyone’s guess.

The bottom line is that “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED” is pretty cut and dried for those with a moderate education in the English language and some common sense. Will you go to war over a Federal “Red Flag” law passing? No, you won’t. For the three of you it will be a noisy version of suicide. Will “Red Flag” laws make a difference? NO, THEY WON’T! Why? Well because the institutions who are supposed to report things to the Feds for NICS can’t even do that or do it right. The Air Force was one of ’em, and people died in a church in Texas because the AF “employees” were criminally incompetent.

As an AP Staff member mentioned to our group the other day, “Conservatives” and the liberty minded are a lot more pissed off than they were 25 years ago. I agree. One of the reasons is that the last three years, if not the last three decades, have shown us what utter contempt, Gov elites like the Senior Executive Service members have for the working American.

They define the “This is for me and not for thee.” mentality. This is just a small issue in the “Mountain of Crap” the DC crowd is doing. Do I think those in President Trump’s Administration are trying to find, fix and eliminate the problem? I really don’t know. One step forward and two steps back seams to be the norm these days, and I haven’t seen any gas leak, let alone a gush, out of “The Swamp” that is the District of Criminals. It appears as if it’s just a big distraction from the economic “balloon”, and that “balloon” is leaking badly when you know what figures to look at.

The President has weaponized his Twitter feed, but even while the things he tweets about appear to point out a real problem, which the MSM dutifully and immediately calls “mean”, they still only end up as “fluff” and the follow on “substance” is generally, non existent.

So to the problem at hand, gun control/background checks/gun confiscation/weapons bans,….etc., etc., ad nauseam, and what to do about it. Just like 1775 at Lexington and Concord, YOU are not gonna start a war unless it is a reaction done in self defense to being attacked/fired on. As risky as letting it go that far is, you won’t start it because you/we don’t/won’t control the narrative, and most will not start a conflict with a narrative they can’t control.

On a side note, and speaking of “the narrative”. During a convo with friends and associates the other day, one of them asked why no CCW holders engaged and fired on the shooter in the Texas Walmart, with Texas being the firearms mecca that it is. The implication was that if you can carry it and have it on you, you should engage the bad guy. I mentioned that I have one prerequisite in that instance, to get those I care for, and am responsible for, to safety.

I will not draw my weapon until I see the shooter and he appears to be a DIRECT threat to me and mine. As a civilian I will not run to the sound of the shooting if I have others in my charge. If I don’t have them with me, I definitely will not run around with my weapon drawn and possibly be engaged by LEO’s or Armed Security and/or be labelled as “Shooter #2”. I don’t like it, but this is common sense in the day and age in which we live.

If they pass Fed “Red Flag” Law they pass it. If they pass another Assault Weapon Ban, they pass it. I don’t believe they will pass a total ban because they don’t have the personnel and logistics to deal with that kind of overt and deadly grief. Regardless, plan accordingly NOW! You should have read that writing on the wall three years ago, but that’s water under the bridge, isn’t it? So let’s try to be constructive.

Keep things like price in the aftermath of the ’94 AWB, and the Newtown shooting in mind. Glock 21 .45ACP 13 round mags were $80 in 1999 during the AWB, and even .22LR ammo went through the roof after the Newtown shooting as examples. Buy 20, 30 and 40 round box mags and drum mags for your weapons while they are cheap. Buy as much ammo as you can to feed those weapons while it’s relatively cheap. Buy at least one or two “Assault/Battle” rifles.  Buy a couple pistols while you can. Buy the gear needed to carry a fighting load for your weapons, and related survival equipment. Check in with John at UWGear for quality equipment that does the job well. Buy spare parts for all the weapons you have so you can maintain them after a ban. Buy and learn how to use reloading equipment, then stock up on components. Buy gear to cache your excess or back up equipment.

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Things to get now if you don’t have them. 20, 30 and 40 round mags for your rifle. Drum mags if you can get them for your rifle. Standard and large capacity mags for your pistols. Gear to carry your mags, pistol and supporting equipment.

Finally, get training on not only how to use those weapons, but how to use them and survive in non permissive environments. Both Brushbeater/NC Scout and I (MDT) offer classes on small unit tactics, operating as a small team and survival. The time is coming when you will have to make a decision. Will you stand up and fight when attacked, or will you grovel at the “master’s” feet hoping for the scraps of “Rights” he gives you?

As a Nation, we’ve been at that juncture before. There is a good chance we will eventually be there again. Steel yourself to that eventuality by making your course of action decisions now. “In the moment” will be too late, and a falter on your part will only be survivable due to Divine Providence.

The bottom line is this. You don’t have a crystal ball, but you do have historical references to guide your decisions. Prudence, tempered with realistic, historical reflection creates it’s own path to sound decisions. Good luck.

JCD

"Parata Vivere"- Live Prepared.

 

 

My Experience With Primary Arms Optics

My Experience With Primary Arms Optics

 

 

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Four different Primary Arms ACSS optics that I have on some of my firearms.

There are a few writers out there that love to say a piece of tactical kit is “Duty Grade”, when the writer/individual (an “expert” I’m sure….) in question has never even done “Duty” any where or at any time. Those “experts” will “poo poo” those of us that select items based on what we believe is a serious need, but also have to consider our pocket book in the process.

A while back I read some drivel from a “Wanna be Tactical but Never Has Been” concerning a recommendation towards selecting Primary Arms optics for self defense firearms. This author’s “claim to fame” is taking classes from some tactical trainers, giving his “Range day accomplishments” in blog form and being a self described “Anarchist”.

Having not only owned, but used, a number of Primary Arms optics for a bit now. I figured I’d give my impressions of several of their optics, and whether I feel they are “Duty Grade” for the average Survivalist looking to equip their self defense or “game getter” firearms with decent scopes. Keep in mind, I have to outfit several weapons with optics that not only can’t break the bank, but still need to perform up to my standards, and having a similar reticle across the array of weapons is important.

My standards take into account what I know about the combat optics I’ve used in actual combat conditions and their short comings. I also consider what I also know will “cut it” in severe environmental and difficult task oriented activities as a civilian, and for that, I considering the failures I’ve seen in those environs.

The Primary Arms 1-6X ACSS

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The 1-6X ACSS reticle

The FAL type action is one of the hardest actions to find optics for. This is due to the recoil impulse being very hard on the internals and the reticle of any given scope. I have had failures from Tasco, Bushnell and Leupold optics on different FAL’s I’ve owned. They weren’t the low end $25 “Walmart Specials”. They were some of the better $250-500 models. Up until the PA 1-6X ACSS scope, the only one I found the FAL didn’t break, was my Valdada IOR 4X M1 (a $500 scope in 2000). I hated that scope (M1) on a .308 (the M2 works fine on my 5.56 M4) because just like an ACOG, the eye relief is too short.

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My normal “Go To” weapon when I train is my 11″ ParaFAL with the PA 1-6X ACSS optic.

So along comes Primary Arms with their 1-6X ACSS reticle. What’s not to like? It has awesome clarity, good eye relief, an etched reticle that is similar to the ACOG I used in Iraq, and not only has one scope survived 800 rounds through one of my Para FAL’s (a 16″ barrel), but a second has cleared 500 rounds through another (an 11″ barrel).

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I liked the PA 1-6X ACSS so much that I bought two more. One for my 11.5″ SIG M400 AR, and one for my “House Rifle”, a 16″ SAI Socom. Those four optics together, would cost what one of the high end optics so many of the “Experts” out there are pushing (Of course they don’t have a “Company Rep” agenda……right?). What’s the excuse of the “expert” we were talkin’ about earlier? He is just a “Float rider” who is “waving his hand”, hopin’ he’ll be seen by someone so he feels relevant cuz…..trainin’.

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The rifle that is on standby in my home.

On a side note. Some might think a .308Win is too powerful for home defense use. Normal mil ball would definitely be too much. I’ve found in studies that the 110gr Federal VMax retains plenty of .308 power, while not going through numerous walls in a dwelling. This rifle also has the added advantage of being very well suited for use as a blunt force weapon, due to the hand positioning on the stock. Setting the ACSS scope to 1X and turning on the illuminator helps it perform much like the M68 Aimpoint red dots I used in the military.

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The ammo I use for home defense in my Socom is the 110gr Federal VMax. With the ACSS zeroed for this load, my hold for 149gr LC Ball is the 350 meter point in the reticle.

Primary Arms Orion 4-14X ACSS

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So after deciding that I really liked the ACSS reticle and system, I decided to look for something for my primary deer rifle. After weighing the pros of the power level and the now familiar reticle BDC, with the cons of more weight than my 3-9x40mm Sightron MilDot, I took the leap and bought a PA Orion 4-14x44mm. This optic is phenominal. I have a higher magnification power for the really long shots (I’ve shot deer out to 627 meters at my regular hunting spot), and at the same time, I also have an easily understood, quick to use and accurate reticle.

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With my .308Win Ruger Scout, I was able to shoot a 1 inch group at 200 meters at the conclusion of the zeroing process. I used 168gr. Fed Match. The glass is very clear. The reticle BDC is easy to use and be accurate with (obviously). Finally, although it hasn’t been run through hard conditions yet (I put 200 rounds through it on “sight in” day), I’m confident in it’s durability because of the other Primary Arms products I’ve used and been very satisfied with. I did not feel a need for an illuminated reticle on this rifle, considering the primary purpose of that gun is for hunting.

The Primary Arms 1X Cyclops

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As with the above mentioned PA Orion, I’ve only owned one PA Cyclops 1X so far, but I have used it on three different rifles, one of which was an 11″ Para FAL. it has done well on all three rifles, and the only reason it ended up on the Keltec SU-16C was due to me putting PA 1-6X ACSS scopes on the FAL and 11.5″ AR. As of right now, the SU-16C with a loaded 10 round mag, as it appears in the pic, weighs 6lbs. 6ozs., and with this weight and an overall length of 27 inches, this is just about perfect as a Bug Out Bag rifle.

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I put about 400 rounds through the ParaFAL while I had the Cyclops on it, and there was never an issue with damage to the reticle or failure of the scope. As a Survivalist, I can appreciate that this optic is as quick as a red dot, but does not need a battery if the balloon goes up. You can’t say that about most red dot optics.

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If you are looking for a rugged and economical red dot sight for a self defense weapon. look no further than the PA Cyclops. it will never go down, due to battery issues. Like it or not, battery life is only part of the equation. If the electronics take a dump (like the high priced EOTech I used to own did in extremely wet weather), you are up the creek unless you have an etched reticle in the optic.

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The Primary Arms 6X .22 ACSS

I’ve shot a lot of .22’s over the last 40 or so years, and I’ve used a ton of different scopes on different rifles over the years. One of the things I found I usually did with a variable power optic on a .22LR was leave it set on 6X. So a while ago, here comes Primary Arms offering a compact 6X scope with an ACSS reticle geared towards the diminutive .22LR caliber. The PA 6X ACSS is one of the most convenient and squared away little scopes I’ve seen in a long time.

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I put that scope on my old Ruger 10/22, and together, they make a super light and compact system that will be the doom for many a squirrel and groundhog this hunting season. Having a bullet drop reticle in a .22LR takes a lot of the guesswork I had to put in when using a mildot reticle. Range, Hold, Squeeze and the rest is history for whatever game or target you are shooting at.

Conclusion

On my recommendation last year, my Son bought a PA 3xACSS for his Palmetto State Armory PSAK-47 in 7.62x39S. I would never have recommended something to a family member, especially for a defensive weapon, unless I believed it would be 100% reliable. Especially when he is just starting to earn a living as an adult, and a $200 and something optic is still a stretch on the finances.

Over the years I’ve bought and used a lot of scopes. Some fell short, some didn’t. From the examples I own of Primary Arms scopes, buying a PA optic (especially the ACSS models) is “winning” for the economically, challenged Survivalist who is just trying to “kit up” as best they can. You are not sacrificing quality for savings in this case. I would never sacrifice the well being of my family for any amount of money, especially by buying cheap crap for my defensive weapons. In this instance, I fortunately didn’t have to.

JCD

"Parata Vivere"- Live Prepared.