So my Wife and I were having a conversation this morning, and she mentions that a friend at work told her that the PA drivers license wouldn’t be able to be used as ID to get into Federal buildings or be able to fly domestically after January of 2018. Of course my first response was, “That sounds like some internet BS.”. Guess what, the joke is on us and everyone who lives in the below illustrated yellow states.
Why didn’t I mention the red or green states shown above? Well, it’s simple. The green states have complied with the FedGov REAL ID Act. The red states are already required to show an alternate form of acceptable ID to board a plane or go in a Federal building as of Jan 2017, due to not getting an extension from the “ever benevolent” DHS . This is the Fed DHS site where I’m getting my info. Here’s some examples of what the site says about the “Red”, “Yellow” and “Green” states.
Here’s what is considered an acceptable form of ID
Note that a firearms carry permit is not an acceptable form of alternate ID, even with the background check that is required for a carry permit. This is from the TSA site.
Here are some of the Q&A items listed on the Fed site.
This next one I found truly ironic, considering the election fraud we dealt with in this past election, and the amount of Illegals who voted (for you know who) in that election. So I need it to go into a Federal building or to fly, but I don’t need it to cast my vote that determines who will lead the country?
Below is another one that I found to be complete BS, considering the somewhat related info we have recently learned from the “Vault 7” Wikileak info. Of course they’re not using any of this to build a database, right? Look again at the “allowed” forms of ID. Are any of them not already part of a federal database?
Here’s one simple reason why I think the majority aren’t complying. It’s called states rights, or the Tenth Amendment. “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” In this case I believe the states in question (red or yellow) have state constitutions that don’t allow for this type of required federal compliance.
Another reason I think some are not complying is that they are trying to hide their large “Illegals” population (REAL ID specifically stipulates that they have a mark on the ID that says, “These cards must clearly state on their face [and in the machine readable zone] that it is not acceptable for official purposes and must use a unique design or color to differentiate them from compliant cards”). I haven’t looked at those state constitutions (red and yellow), but it seems to be one of the only reasons (along with the “Illegals” issue) I can figure the state legislatures would not comply.
Is all of this a big deal? I think it is, and for multiple reasons. I knew the REAL ID Act existed, but was under the impression that a state issued ID was automatically considered a Federal ID (by default), since they were still accepted across state lines (for now). Although I am pissed that it appears the Feds are going to make it more and more oppressive (it’s in their nature), I like that half the states have said “No” to them in this instance.
Will it get to the point that we are going through permanent checkpoints laced throughout the states (Nazi Germany anyone?)? It’s anyone’s guess. But I am also emboldened to know that half of the states have not complied with this Federal mandate. Although I don’t think President Trump will address this (does he even know about it?), it will be interesting to see what will happen next January when it won’t be 5 states not complying, but 25.
JCD
American by BIRTH, Infidel by CHOICE
Mason Dixon Tactical 
The unaccountable FEDs, all of them, operate with the following code towards law abiding citizens: “Obey, or we will hurt you.”
My code used to be: “Treat me good, I’ll treat you better. Treat me badly, I’ll treat you worse.”
In the recent movie “Criminal” starring Kevin Costner; Costner’s impulse control damaged character had a code worth considering: “You hurt me, I’ll hurt you worse.” Simple.
Joe
So, just get a passport (and a passport card — called “internal passport”). I carry both of mine all the time. No problems. Or as I am fond of saying, “Even the Maquis followed the rules.”
States Rights? That was a dead letter before the ink dried on the parchment. One of the internal contradictions in the Constitution. The Federal Circuit Courts always trumped State’s courts.
I remember talking to a German woman who grew up in “Nazi” (eeeeeeK!) Germany. Asked about the Gestapo she said, “Oh, they were so polite… not like American police.”
S//
“Polite” doesn’t define what is in the heart of a man. Many times it is a tactic of those that have nefarious intent, and is a tactic used towards a malicious end.
If you do some honest research you’ll find the Gestapo was rather benign. They were not omnipresent. Many of their mundane arrests got thrown out of “Nazi” (eeeeeeK!) courts. If you were an average heterosexual German they didn’t even look at you because you were not considered a threat. They would not act on the tips of women. And there is much more. Saints? No. Demons? No. Men defending the internal security of their country during time of war.
S//
Doesn’t “Geheime Staatspolizei” (the full name for the abbreviation “Gestapo”) mean “Secret State Police” in German? I wouldn’t equate any “police” agency that uses that title as being “benign” anymore than I would one named “Staatssicherheit” (Stasi).
The Gestapo was German. The Stazi was Jewish.
The Gestapo was not scary for normal Germans, only for Comunists/Jews (same thing), homosexuals, Gypsies, Jehovah Witness (interesting!), criminals/black marketers, escaped prisoners, etc..
The Stazi was Judeo-Communist and only scary for normal Germans.
Homeland Security was organized by “former” Stazi people recruited/hired (by you know who) for the purpose.
You must learn to distinguish.
S//
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As an individual who may not wish to be “trapped” inside or outside of the ConUS, I keep renewing my passport. Last I checked, the US Passport Office has the capability to process about 10M passports a year. This is 100M passports every 10 years, which is the expiration time of a passport. There are over 3x this many US Persons who might qualify to have a passport, if they had the fee. During a crisis, the ability to rapidly transit an international border can be life-preserving and is frequently convenient. I have reminded people worth keeping as associates that having your papers ready is an important box to check in the “prep’s”.
Another fine feature of a US Passport vs. a State DL/ID is that it does not have your home address or Social Security Number on the document.
I live in Florida which is a REAL ID state and you have to present a valid passport or birth certificate with official seal in order to get or renew your driver’s license. It is a pain in the ass, but I think FL went along so as to make life harder for illegal/undocumented residents. Notice that Alabama is also a REAL ID state and nobody makes life harder for illegals than ol’ Bamy.
The Real ID debacle and federal power grab has been going on for well over a decade. It was one of the first major initiatives of the newly formed DHS. Their website had a big map of the US showing the state compliance, obviously expecting with the federal arm twisting, the map would soon be all green. It soon became a DHS embarrassment, with states in open revolt over Real ID, the DHS granting unilateral extensions so they didn’t need to color the map mostly red, and Michael Chertoff eventually leaving the DHS to sell overpriced and faulty airport screening systems, without his Real ID mandate even close to being delivered.
In March of 2008, one of the scary DHS extensions was coming to an end with the eminent threat that people in states that didn’t comply would not be allowed to fly. NPR tried to hype up the scare factor to get more states to comply. They interviewed Montana governor Brian Schweitzer. It’s hilarious, and had the opposite effect from what the federal boot lickers at NPR intended.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=87991791
(transcript and four minute audio)
After the interview, the NPR talking head concluded with a statement from the DHS warning that as of May 2008, residents of Montana showing up at airports with a Montana drivers license would be no better than having no identification at all. That was nine years ago. Montana is still flagrantly non-compliant, having passed state legislation PROHIBITING Real ID compliance, and Montana residents are still flying. Governor Schweitzer was right. Montana residents would show their Montana drivers license and they’d get on the plane. It’s all a big federal bluff.
Unfortunately, state legislatures come and go, but the tyrannical DHS coercion is constant. The federal government is gradually flipping those states green on their Knuckled Under To Federal Tyranny map.
I live in a yellow state that is teetering toward green. We fight Real ID every year in our state legislature. It passed last year, our governor had actually made a Real ID promo video trying to assure us that it’s voluntary and not that bad, but his most ardent supporters convinced him to veto Real ID. The bill passed the House last week. Will he veto it again if it passes the Senate this week? The tyranny never stops, and once enacted it’s very difficult to reverse.
Here in Yuma Arizona FUSA any recent arrival from the south can get an Arizona ID card from the DMV on day one. On that same day they can get a fraudulent Social Security Card or number in the parking lot of the DMV. On the same day if time allows they can go to our one and only full service Post Office and make an appointment to get a US Passport for the entire family to include sixty year olds that do not speak ONE WORD of English. Within a very short time we will have a family of eight or ten Passport holding US “citizens”. It has been going on for years now, everybody knows about it but what can a person do? Those postal employees involved are Mexicans of course!
How is real ID meaningful if states are giving licenses to Illegals and unvetted refugees?
Of All the things to get your panties in a wad; this ain’t it, imo. I have a Real ID State drivers license. It required 3 forms of ID, like a birth certificate, passport, SS ? , but it wasn’t a big problem or intrusive. Well worth the effort IF it can deter Illegals. Along with E Verify it could “repatriate” many Illegals.
Also that a Real ID is not currently required for voting in a federal Election is a needed addendum to the law.
“REAL ID” is meaning-less in the FUSA now. All branches of our multi-armed government cephalopod are deeply involved in the fraud. I was just stating the facts relating to the never ending horde of semi-ignorant Hispanic invaders. Think about how some “clever WOG from wherever-istan can tweak the system if needed. As a white ex-military boomer I am now a hated minority in my community where I am treated like a diseased freak to include the tellers at our local Navy Federal Credit Union that is manned and operated by Hispanics and the average customer speaks no English and more than likely never served in the US military. That is just one example of the twisted system we now must deal with on an every day basis.
Arizona deserves an asterisk. If you opt for their standard driver license, it is issued with a “NOT FOR FEDERAL IDENTIFICATION” message right at the top, and after Oct. 1, 2020 will not be useful for flying. However, there is a voluntary travel ID available. No word on when the voluntary ID will become mandatory though, at least not yet.
As a resident of the a “red state” for the purposes of the map above, Missouri went all-out anti-RealID from the very beginning claiming that folks traveling within the continental US should NOT be subject to being in a Fed database somewhere. The politicians here proclaimed loudly it presented an undue burden on the people and the state to conform with Real ID strictly for traveling WITHIN the US. We’ll just have to see how much longer they can resist it.
The less discussed reason for anti-RealID is that the photo must be compliant with facial recognition software applications. Missouri got in big trouble right around the time RealID went through for disclosing the entire CCW database to the feds, so the politicians turned anti-fed-database in a hurry.
Just one problem , if you don’t have the appropriate id you aren’t getting on a plane and your state reps won’t give a rip. My state, wa, is hiding it’s illegals , it also stands to make alot of money forcing people to get an “enhanced drivers license” . Who allowed this to happen? Well that would be the reps of every state who work in dc.
I live in a “yellow” state. I hope that we never bow down and kiss the feet of the “Real ID Act”.
Actually, I refuse to fly commercial airlines, since I will not deal with the TSA.
Bob
The database is being assembled, just more covertly than they’ll admit or that most people are aware of. Most DMVs are seizing your biometric in the form of digital facial recognition captures and presto, you are enrolled and have now become machine recognizable having given them ideal lighting and conditions to capture that high-resolution image of your visage. That data is being fed into the FBI’s Next Generation Identification system and if they don’t already have your state, they’re coming for it. That, of course, is shared among the collection of .gov TLA agencies for whatever purposes they see fit. See Trapwire, etc.
On my last license renewal, I was asked to remove my clear prescription glasses before being “photographed.” I refused. They refused to process me. When asked to be shown in print where that was required by law it came down to the PATRIOT ACT:
specific photograph regulations and specifically mentions eyewear in §37.17 (e) (1) (iii):
> _”…The person may not wear eyewear that obstructs the iris or pupil
> of the eyes and must not take any action to obstruct a photograph of
> their facial features.”_
I asked for their finding of obstruction given that my lenses were transparent but they were done answering anything by that point and trotted out the “Driving is a privilege and you’ll just have to accept our policy on this.”
I requested to switch to a non-driving license ID to moot the claim of privilege only to be told that the same criteria applies and they were unable to articulate any claim of state privilege for this case.
So, I now go about my affairs as best I can without ID experiencing the best of “… none may buy or sell lest they hath his mark …” and waiting to be deprived of liberty, property and perhaps even life simply for insisting that the government does not have the power to seize my biometric without suspicion or warrant.
Just curious… What is your argument going to be when you get pulled over or end up at a checkpoint and get busted for driving without a license?
You’ll get processed and they’ll get their FaceRec anyway. Never mind the legal expenses of your spirited freeman defense — which you will lose.
“…[W]aiting to be deprived of liberty, property and perhaps even life simply for insisting that the government does not have the power to seize my biometric without suspicion or warrant.”
Mmm Hmm… Brave words.
Anyway, the PA and its FaceRec are now part of your Constitution. And FaceRec has nothing to do with “hath his mark” whatsoever.
S//
Since the DMV referred to me as a “customer” I simply took it to heart and, not being pleased by their inflexible business model, shopped the competition for a drivers license so traversing revenue enhancement zones whilst traveling are generally not an issue.
Given your statement of PA and FR now part of the constitution, you’d do well to heed the words of Lysander Spooner, “But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain – that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist.”
“…[I]t is unfit to exist.”
Agree. Except Spooner was an anarchist, and I am the polar opposite.
Still, that has nothing to do with the fact that a national “internal passport” is perfectly reasonable.
S//
“Still, that has nothing to do with the fact that a national ‘internal passport’ is perfectly reasonable.”
This reminds me of those Cold War era movies where Soviet internal security guards accost people and demand their papers, scrutinize them, and then sternly announce, “Your papers are not in order.”
“Your papers, please.” Not in my country.
@Bruce (below)
So…you’ve never heard the words, “License, insurance, and registration?” Sounds like “papers please” to me. And how is “step out of the car” not the same as “not in order?”
How do you think people in the Maquis passed through checkpoints? Answer to rhetorical question… Their papers were in order.
I understand all the blah blah about biometrics, etc.,… Bitch about it until you’re blue in the face — it ain’t going away. The question is not about its “constitutionality.” The question is are you going to pass through the checkpoint.
S//
@Steven – You seem to have a very authoritarian and status quo view of this issue. People in charge say we gotta do it so we gotta do it, and we’ve always had police stopping people and demanding travel documents, so making those documents more controlling, giving more power to the state and less privacy and autonomy to citizens isn’t a big deal. I disagree. When I think something is wrong, I oppose it. I don’t shrug and say a little more isn’t much worse. I don’t dismiss it with the excuse that “it ain’t going away”. I’d say it’s become as bad as it has because We the People allowed it to, and it’s getting worse because we aren’t demanding that all of this surveillance of innocent Americans is rolled back.
You say, “The question is not about its constitutionality.” I think that is exactly the issue. Surveillance of US citizens is not one of the federal government’s enumerated powers. Our US Constitution doesn’t grant any power to the federal government that it desires. Quite the opposite. It says that all powers not enumerated are reserved to the states, or the people. We seem to have forgotten that. Our federal government has certainly forgotten that there are any limitations to its power. They need us to remind them. That’s long overdue.
@Bruce below Bruce@Steven
According the the mythology (the US does not have a history, it has only advertising), the Sovereign People (just where in nature does one find sovereign atoms? — and whoever claims the collective has a will is an imbecile… you know, like Locke) elect other Sovereign People to represent them who are to be then reduced to slavery bound by the chains of a perpetually mutating ink smeared foolscap (called “Constitution”). The only problem being that that fine bright and shiny Utopian constitutional daydream is the nightmare of today’s reality.
The Tenth Amendment is blithering nonsense. It’s a lie. Never have the “sovereign” States ever trumped Federal law.
I agree with you that constitutionality is the issue. In this land of the “rule of law” the Real ID is now law and there has been no successful judicial challenge. That’s it. Real ID is now Constitutional. Moan bitch howl complain stomp your feet and throw a hissy-fit about population control. It’s your Constitution — not mine. Your Constitution-Land is the stuff of dreamy nonsense. I’m living in the reality resulting from your goddamned false freedoms. I have my passport and passport card (aka: internal passport). You will complain bitterly about tyranny when you are asked for you papers, and I will breeze through the checkpoint.
If you have a complaint about our current situation take it up with your “Founding Fathers.”
S//
Matt,I like the idea of a license that does not identify you to the feds,could use more like it!
About 82 countries currently require their citizens to possess a national identity card once they reach the age of majority. The US in its various states also has a de facto identity card, namely the driver´s license, although the driver´s license is not mandatory. The driver´s license databases of most states are linked to one another, allowing interstate queries to be performed. In addition, there are marketing databases and the Social Security database, and who knows how many less well-known databases containing information about most all Americans and maybe some foreigners too.
I have it on hearsay that the border-control databases of some nations are linked. This may consist of data sharing among Interpol members.
In light of the above, I don’t see “Real ID” as being particularly threatening to liberty or privacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country#Countries_with_compulsory_identity_cards
You’re just not getting it, Harry. Real ID has nothing to do with having IDs that can be used to regulate immigration. We already had photo IDs that were perfectly acceptable for any valid law enforcement purpose. The Real ID creates a biometric database. Your facial image is recorded at a far higher resolution than the low resolution image that’s printed on your drivers license. The high resolution image is used to calculate distinctive facial features that allow computers to analyze images so computers, not people, can identify you. A primary feature is the spacing between your pupils, but nostrils, the corners of the mouth, etc. are also recorded. Your high resolution facial image is reduced to a set of numbers that is stored in a federal biometric database along with the other biometric data than is stored in that database, including your digitized fingerprints, DNA, etc. The facial biometric data is different, and in many ways even more of a danger to privacy and liberty, because unlike fingerprints and DNA, your facial image can be scanned at a distance.
Not long after the facial biometric data was collected in Real ID compliant drivers licenses, the SuperBowl was held in Denver, and as a test, cameras were set up on all of the concourses leading into the stadium. As the crowds shuffled into the stadium in large numbers, the individuals were identified. Not all of them, as is their eventual goal, but a very large percentage.
Did you know that every piece of mail is scanned and the To and From metadata is stored in a database? I’m sure it bugs them that they aren’t opening all of the letters and scanning them into a database too, because that’s exactly what they do with every email or text message that we send where they know who is talking to whom and the entire contents of that communication is stored for decades. Who can’t be made to look guilty with that much data?
What government can justify a need for such invasive spying on its own citizens? This is FAR worse than the surveillance in soviet Russia, East Germany, or North Korea. How is this keeping us safe, as they pretend?
I don’t want to live in a world where government follows me everywhere I go, via cameras on every street corner.
Keep humming that Lee Greenwood song and telling yourself that you’re proud to be an American, because at least you know you’re free.
A bit of a rant, but fuckit, here it is:
IMO, the problem is human weakness and the innate desire to deny it by dominating the “other.” Not by personal combat to establish the pecking order, that’s almost always illegal, but rather employing government’s lawful use of force, and some very useful idiots, to effectively invert the pecking order.
The illegal/immoral order that is enforced, rather than ignored, because it’s easier to do so and
“Fuck Them Anyway!”
The illegal/immoral order that is obeyed, rather than resisted, because it’s easier to do so and
“I’m Fucked Anyway!”
The illegal/immoral order that is created by the Top of the inverted pecking order, because:
“Who’s going to stop me? You? Have you seen my PSD?”
My problem, is that I get the “big swinging dick” theory of human relations at a primal level. But when I am forced to accept the Weiners, the Clintons, the Cheneys, (add/delete as appropriate
), are now the “BSDs”, it offends me to my core. And when I have to endure an unaccountable pack of useful idiots enforcing the inverted pecking order supporting these “BSDs”, what course is available to me?
Directing logic or anger at the useful idiots is pointless, you get processed, one way or another.
What then shall we do?
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I always read carefully the writings of SFCSteven Barry, I may not always like what he says, but his works are always well researched and well thought through. He is an american patriot, and as a strategist estimates our enemies accurately and causes us to review ourselves carefully ……maybe too much so. a good man to have beer with.