Subservience Versus Subordination


A serious issue that I’ve seen in the Liberty/Patriot/Militia is the perception that those of us with prior military service look down on civilians as serfs to be shunned and ostracized for their lack of martial ability. A friend has used the analogy of Adults compared to children, and this has been made into an “Us vs Them” theme by the ignorant, as if we are in competition.

There is no competition in this arena, simply because the requisite skills are not present in civilians to be competitors. Going to an SUT class or four does not put you on par with an infantryman who did one enlistment (it’s like comparing little league with a farm league team). Those who generally push that you are on par have an agenda, and that agenda usually has a price tag attached, and it has to do with attending their class.

Does this mean you cannot compete once the “Big game” day comes? Not at all. What it means is you will probably need assistance (before and during) from those that know how it works, and how to efficiently perform the tasks necessary for success in your endeavor. Can you succeed without help? Maybe, but the odds are not good, and relying on luck is just stupid. The type of tasks I’m talking about are from an “Operations” level, not defending you retreat (although someone who knows something like “Base defense operations” could be very helpful) from zombies.

Making the “Adult/Child analogy into an “Us vs Them” mindset is a seriously, grotesque exaggeration, and shows the ignorance of those that forward that mentality. In my own life as a Father, I want the best for my children and have never looked at it as a “Versus” relationship. I try to give them the best advice I can. I teach them the things I know and have experienced to help them survive to adulthood and make sound, reasonable, responsible decisions when faced with issues as an adult.

When those of us that are Vets tell you “Hey, you do not know what you are talking about, that’s not how it’s done.” concerning something that relates to strategy, operations, and small unit tactics, it’s probably because we’ve either seen or done the stupid crap being mentioned, and don’t want to see you fail. We all hate the “knowitall” who has no or little background in something, telling us “I’d do it this way.”. It sounds like the cherry LT who says “In my experience.”, or “One time at Rotcee.”.  I had an LT that would come up with some hair brained idea, and say “Sergeant Dodge, what do you think of this?” I’d give him a look that told him it was stupid, then he’d say, “Well I am in charge, why should I listen to you?”. My response was usually a form of “Do what you want Sir, you’re in charge but I was jumping out of planes when you were jumping off the bus.” I never said “I told you so, Sir.” when he did what he wanted to and failed, as it was a learning experience, and part of that learning experience was learning to take advice from those that knew (His betters).  He was the “Child” being mentored by an “Adult”. The term “Child” is a status, not a put down.

Some of the things I’ve seen in comments is that a number of the “You can’t tell me what to do.”, “butthurt” individuals (don’t like being told they are “Children”, or we are their “Betters”) believe we want to be “The King”, “The Warlord”, or some other such “I’m the Leader” silliness, and that is the furthest from the truth possible. Most of my friends who are Vets know what war is about, and don’t want to experience another one. We understand the reality, you only know the book or the movie. If we are in charge, at least initially, it is because we are the best people suited to help in overall survival. After that, I know most of us would step down, and let those who have proven themselves lead the way. I personally don’t want any part of being in the leadership.

To LEAD, you first have to know how to FOLLOW! To be a “Follower” requires  subordination. Every individual who was in the military knows how to subordinate themselves. We didn’t necessarily like it, but we did it because that’s how teams work and accomplish goals. Someone is in charge. Fortunately for the civilians willing to follow, there are those that are willing to lead them. Those in charge in the upcoming festivities would be those who know more, due to their training and experience. You generally won’t have to deal with a guy being in charge only because someone gave him a commission. It requires bonafides.

Do we expect subordination from those who don’t have our experience? Hell yes!. Keep in mind, you subordinating yourself to an experienced Vet, doesn’t mean you are subservient. There is a difference in this instance between the two. Below are the definitions of both that apply in this post.


placed in or occupying a lower class, rank, or position


useful in an inferior capacity.

A friend had a good analogy for the difference in the context we are using. When an individual goes to basic training, he is subservient to everyone except his peers, till he graduates from Basic and AIT. When that person graduated from Basic and AIT, he goes to his unit assignment, and is subordinate to all that outrank him, and peers that are in leadership positions greater than his. (example: The ranks of Specialist and Corporal are both in the grade of E-4, but a Corporal is an Non Commissioned Officer, and a Specialist is enlisted, and the rank of Specialist is more of a time in service promotion, than it is a promotion due to recognized leadership and responsibility). In Basic and AIT you aren’t anything more than a trainee. When you get to your unit of assignment, you are a Soldier, and with the elevation in status comes a marked increase in what is expected and required out of you.

Recently, both Barry and Roberts have given you guys things to ponder when/if you decide to take up arms. It is not a joke, and blowing their advice off is the mark of the exceptionally naive ignoramus. You might not like the delivery, but it wasn’t intended to massage you delicate, effeminate psyche. It was written to give men the facts about the requirements needed, as only two men with their experience can give them. As I told Barry before, in the grand scheme of things, I am a “Teenager” compared to his background. The funny thing is that he has told me about men that make him feel like a child due to their backgrounds.

The choice is yours, be a “Child” who wants to know more and is willing to subordinate to those that know (like I was at my first unit, I was a damn sponge and was fortunate to have those that were willing to answer ALL my questions). Or be the “Child” who is a selfish little shit, is always saying “Me, me, me.” and is an ignorant knowitall. Some children will (not “can”) not be taught do to their inability to take instruction, and they usually learn the lessons the HARD way. We do not want you to learn the hard way. If that was the case, I would not run the business I do, or waste my time on this blog. It takes time from things that are very important to me, but I have put this on my priorities “Things to do” list. It would be nice to think think the effort was not being wasted.

Taxpayers did not pay for our resumes, we earned them. We were paying taxes then too dumbasses. We earned them through our own efforts (the military didn’t give us shit, when it comes to qualifications), and don’t owe the electorate/taxpayers shit. Most of you lazy bastards dropped the ball in this country, by not keeping those elected in line (that is not the military’s job, is it?). You had one job, and you blew it, and you can’t blame the military for that. Now it’s time to pay the piper.

Learn what you can. Train your mind, body, and soul to fight the onslaught that is headed this way. If you are a Vet, teach those that are willing to learn what you know. If they don’t want to learn, Screw’em. They don’t deserve your time or efforts, and will probably be saying “You can’t tell me what to do” all the way to the camps or when they get rolled over by their “Betters” in their own communities.



American by BIRTH, Infidel by CHOICE



45 thoughts on “Subservience Versus Subordination

  1. If you are a Vet, teach those that are willing to learn what you know. If they don’t want to learn, Fuck’em. They don’t deserve your time or efforts, and will probably be saying “You can’t tell me what to do” all the way to the camps or when they get rolled over by their “Betters” in their own communities.

    Amen! Good explanation!

  2. A good article to a point but am wondering exactly what you would have us lazy bastards do?Hell,I vote(for what good it did),wrote(ok e-mailed) pols as was against all our foreign intervention when our own country needs so much work,(all that got me was one response,please support my re-election fund!).Would taking in a friend/someone who served,and was afterwards very messed up in the head for basically a year and a half on me couch count?Would me mum,a doc in the VA and others like her trying to better the whole situation for vets including treatment and getting unceremoniously discharged despite all having great records because they do not “understand” count? I mean,were we supposed to create a civil war here against the feds(maybe not a bad idea,but just more violence).So,just what exactly were we lazy bastards supposed to do?I was with the article till that comment,there forward, not so much.

    • The line “Most of you lazy bastards dropped the ball in this country, by not keeping those elected in line ” was aimed at those who are say “Us taxpayers paid for your training and your resumes, you owe us.”, or “We’re in this mess because the military didn’t step up.” There is a group who habitually says this, and you are not among them. We do what we can do, but when there are civilians who are saying it’s the military’s fault, I give it right back and put the responsibility where it is supposed to be. You’ve never given me a reason to think you are part of this crowd, and it wasn’t meant to offend you.

      • Thanks for clearing that up for me JD,I guess I took it a little personally/didn’t read/comprehend your writing in that part,sorry.I have never blamed the military for wars/actions directed by pols and their masters,nor would I blame the military(or any other group)that had a few insane who commited atrocious acts.I will say many opposed to using our citizens as what we saw in a large part cannon fodder for big bucks and the puppet masters,that said,we did not blame the folks who did the hard part while folks sat drinking their booze and counting their dollars.I really have been watching what I see the world go it seems crazy as also our country,perhaps too much info. and probably should to a degree take a break from net/news while not turning into a ostrich and relax,then,work on the things I can do to hopefully better meself and perhaps the world in a tiny bit.The ironic thing is this is basically what I told me friend after his overseas tours and living in a bit of a constant state of insanity(he is doing great now/took awhile though),time to practice what I suggest to others,again,sorry for well,snapping a bit.

        • You have no idea how much I appreciate what you did for your friend. It can be very hard sometimes, and having someone that is just willing to listen and not judge does more than any amount of meds or Docs. You have always been a straight shooter on your comments, and I appreciate that as well.

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  4. I am more than happy to LEARN, I love learning, especially something I believe in. I have been subordinate, and I have been in charge. I will loyally follow a Leader, someone I believe in that has shown the show and trod the path. Part of being a Leader is evaluating where your troops are at and using them for their strengths and building up their weaknesses. But as Gen. Mattis said, “In this age, I don’t care how tactically or operationally brilliant you are, if you cannot create harmony even vicious harmony on the battlefield based on trust across service lines, across coalition and national lines, and across civilian/military lines, you need to go home, because your leadership is obsolete. We have got to have officers who can create harmony across all those lines.” It isn’t about being butt-hurt, or proud, or selfish, it is about being motivated by someone who has demonstrated Leadership qualities. I see Leadership in You, Mosby, Max, Culper … they are the ones I would like to work for & with. Technical proficiency is great, but Leadership is Key.

    • I appreciate your confidence in me, but I have told many of my friends that understand me and my motivations that I see my role as being in the Auxiliary because that’s where I think I could be of the most use. Someone needs to train the replacements, right? I have been a door kicker and I have lead Grunts in combat, and I can still keep up with a 20 year old in the field(I pay for it though). I’d rather be on the line, but see the need for replacement training being avoided by those that want to do “Cool guy” stuff, and somebody needs to do it.

    • 15Fixer,

      Re Mattis quote: he lost his war.

      Harmony as an ethic would force leaders to harmonize with tribal leaders who rape boys, or in this country, who run corrupt local governments. This is a sure path to ruin.

      Mission and discipline are more important than unrestrained harmony.


      • My reading of the GEN Mattis quote is that he is talking about system and coordination of disparate things. However, as usual these days the term is used equivocally rendering it meaningless. In fact, the implication of GEN Mattis’ equivocation is that the execution of war should be democratized.

        • I had not considered the disparate things interpretation, that does ring more true in my internal newsreel.

          The context in which Mattis is usually quoted is at a lower level of organization (i.e. a local or regional militia context), or as a way of papering over deliberate malperformance. Cartel Land is a good example of what happens when a militia tries to harmonize with captured cartel members: the original militia leadership gets imprisoned and the cartel members take over, using the shell of the former militia as a veil of legitimacy.

          The original militia depicted in that program lacked a coherent and realizable mission, which should have anticipated issues such as what to do with cartel members once they are captured. Jose’s Armed Gang (h/t to Dr. Valverde).

          Or, “what happens when playing at war puts you in conflict with people whose business it is?”

          Not wanting to hijack the thread, though, great thoughts from MDT on subject-matter experts. It is possible for the SUT to have been done correctly, and those veterans be valuable experts in the subject, and yet the war be lost (possibly because of the lack of an overall sane and realizable mission). A veteran former E-4 conducts a lot of small unit training here; I don’t interfere with the details of that, but instead concern myself with details of why and when would you do such a thing.


          • GEN Mattis is not talking about cooperation (which requires subordination). He’s actually talking about every organization in Theater (DOS, NGOs, or otherwise) having a say in the conduct of operations. The implications are clear.


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  6. SFC Barry just needs to work on his delivery a bit-I can usually get his points,often after reading the post again,because his posts tend to piss people off. He could say what he’s got to say a little better-word it better-whatever,so he doesn’t just piss people off so they never get the point.
    Same with Roberts to a lesser extent.
    We had a Ranger Staff Sgt. who taught us a lot of things in the year and a half he was around.
    Training on weekends can not give you the same skills a guy who had years of daily training/tours in wherever has-Iraq,Afghanistan and Somalia among other places in “our” guys case.
    So,yeah,subordinate works,because you have to be-he’s the guy who’s been there,done that-you aren’t.

      • SFC Barry would get his point across to more people who really do need some “adult supervision” and fewer of those people would be at risk of getting killed if the delivery wasn’t quite so “harsh”.
        you know-the old catch more flies with honey than with vinegar thing.

        • Dead things attract more flies than anything, and you get more new flies that way, correct? I understand what you’re sayin’ GG2, and I agree to a point. But a lot of them are acting like they deserve to have this crap handed to them in their own time (I’ll get around to it eventually), and at their own pace (but I have so much on my place this weekend, with the football game and all), and the “entitlement” mindset is how we got to this point to begin with. “Harsh” is a necessary reality sometimes.

      • You just carry on and not worry about the microaggressions, hurt feelz, and ego’s.

        It’s amusing that my wife, who manages a bus load of millennials, actually had to take a management class on how to manage millennials, properly talk to them, and not hurt their feelz. We have 2 generations, going on 3, of PC buttercups whose ego’s are so big, yet so tender, that any perceived slight instantly brings down a spiral of hurtz… and, “You can’t talk to me like that! Microaggression!”


        • “We have 2 generations, going on 3, of PC buttercups whose ego’s are so big, yet so tender, that any perceived slight instantly brings down a spiral of hurtz… and, ‘You can’t talk to me like that! Microaggression!'” That’s bothersome, but even more problematic are the guys who are older and should know better, but are the type that I believe at a minimum, ignored, and in some case allowed the very problem you speak of. There are way too many guys in the Patriot/Liberty movement who didn’t go in the military and now wish they had Now they try to live their bygone military aspirations vicariously through the militia groups. I’ve seen it way too much, unfortunately.

          • Still… you can’t tell me what to do, and stop talking to me that way!

            SFC Barry never came off to me that way. He may have sounded a little pissed, but with good reason. And so what.

            Reminds of a new kid we had at a shop I worked at. I was watching him doing a brake job and thinking to myself, “What the hell is he doing?” Of course, I am thinking he should know better. So I finally asked him, “What the f**k are you doing? Trying to kill these people?” He says, “What are you talking about?” I said, “You are doing this all wrong! Have you ever done a drum brake job before?” He says, “No. But the shop supervisor told me to do it.” So I ask him, “Did you tell the shop foreman that you don’t know how to do a brake job?” And he starts getting tears in his eyes. Anyhow, I was a little disgusted, but told him that I would help him with the brake job, and to pay attention. Rule 1, don’t tear down both sides, leave the one side in case you need to go back to it as kind of a road map to the side you are working on. Anyhow, finished the brake job, then I made him tear it down and do it over again, checked it, and it was good to go. Told him this is just the basics. Not all brake jobs are the same. From now on, every brake job you do, if you get stuck, ask me. When you finish a brake job, get me and I’ll check it for you before you put the wheels on. It’s not like us old timers never got together and butted our heads together on a problem. He was so afraid that someone was going to find out he didn’t know, what he should have known, before he started the job, that he went ahead and did the job anyhow, which would have caused a complete brake failure.

            Heck, it’s not like I never had a more experienced old timer asking me “What the f**k are you doing” in my younger years. And that goes all the way back to helping grandpa as a kid, who started out as a machinist mate in WWII, working on his cars, and asking me, “What the f**k are you doing! This is how you do it.”

            If you don’t know, you don’t know. And if you get caught doing what you think you know, and an old timer comes along and asks you, or tells you, you don’t know what the f**k you are doing… maybe instead of getting butt-hurt, it’s time to listen.

            And seriously… this has to be explained? Like you are talking to… children?

            People should be so lucky that there are old-timers around willing to share their years of hands on knowledge.

            Living in different times I guess.

      • I had a really superb SNCO mentor me when I was a young sergeant. I was basically a ‘know-it-all-been-nowhere-E-4’ He was, as has been said here, ‘harsh’ (gentle word) when giving me and the rest of our team the lessons he’d learned in SEA in both the US Army Rangers and USAF SAFESIDE (this guy had actually been on the Sontay prison raid). Basically, to me he was the voice (and instrument) of doom. It became apparent as time went on and I learned the lessons he was trying to teach me that his motivation, like that of SFC Barry, was to do what he could to ensure that I didn’t get my ass shot off should I find myself in a ‘situation.’ Funny thing, he was objective, fair as well, and consistent. He gave credit where it was due and had not a single qualm in lowering the boom for even the slightest infraction when one decided to step out of line. Again, as time went on, corrections sometimes came in the form of ‘the look’ which would be the one and only warning…I can honestly say I learned more from that man in the time I served on his team than I did from many, many others over a career. The really great thing was he didn’t teach us bullshit–he taught us what he KNEW would keep us alive.

        Maybe that’s why SFC Barry’s ‘harsh’ delivery of salient points doesn’t bother me too much, even if I find myself disagreeing with him. I know the presentation is not personal: It’s experience trying desperately to reach those who weren’t able to learn what he learned through years and years of what most today don’t seem to be able to get a handle on.

        What amazes me, truly, about these SF guys is that A: They care enough to actually provide information/opinions/training, B: They demonstrate the quality of their own training by the patience they display when dealing with (dare I say it), the ‘children’ trying to learn the trade the SF types were weaned on, and C: The fact that many folks don’t seem to know that anytime you can get a SF type to start giving constructive criticism, the intelligent thing to do is to be quiet, listen and take copious notes, while guarding against being butt hurt.

        My .02; YMMV.

      • I’m beginning to understand the reason you are “harsh” as you call it to people who are most likely going to get themselves killed-one way or another because they actually believe watching shit on you tube is training,and that they can learn things like SUT and how to be sniper by watching videos of some unqualified idiot showing them how to be a “sniper”.
        Will most people leave the house to get training? No,do PT daily? No.
        Will they get themselves killed-most certainly,due to the fact that they will not take advice from those who know more about the things that count than they do.

        • As I said in the post, we don’t call those people “children” because we hate them, think we are better than them, or plan on ignoring them, we call them “children” because like actual children, they don’t really know what they don’t know, and we want to help them fix that. When it comes to your cooking classes, especially for large groups, I’m an infant, and am more than willing to listen to the voice of experience. Whether it’s your cooking class, or our SUT class, do it wrong, and you’ll get people killed! The reason we are harsh is because we’ve been where you are now, (attitude wise) about a decade or two ago, and we see the futility of trying to make the “knowitalls” “see the light”.

          • Like I said,now I get why SFC Barry is harsh as he calls it-look at the comments at WRSA on the post yesterday about the class likely being cancelled due to lack of interest.
            They can learn all they need to know from you tube and cookbooks.
            There’s a comment there from another chef-we worked on a couple things together,he told them they can’t learn it from a video or a book-not in polite terms either.
            I got about 1500 page views on the post-and that led to exactly one more person,and a possible for the class.
            No one wants to get off their fat asses and leave the house.
            Most probably too fat to hump a pack any farther than the house to the car.
            We’re doomed,there’s millions of Cheetos dust coated keyboard commandos-and maybe 1 out of 100,000 of the “movement” that does PT and trains-it’s pathetic.

  7. Pride runs deep in folks that we want to draw to our side.
    Its very hard self-judge/evaluate.
    You don’t know what you don’t know and furthermore, don’t know what to ask.
    We all can learn something from Everyone- even if all we can learn is how NOT to do something.

    Theres a place for everyone in this. We need to sit pride aside as much as possible and out the ones that are intentionally driving wedges.
    The skill of bringing folks together is greatly under rated. Kind of like Leadership.

    • “The skill of bringing folks together is greatly under rated. Kind of like Leadership.” Winston Smith

      Which brings me back to General Mattis. If you & I are on a battlefield somewhere, I would expect that the groups also on the battle field have the same goals and intentions as us. If their ‘culture’ has them butt-fucking little boys, then maybe we shouldn’t be on that battlefield. Here is where Gen Mattis applies, If you can’t get harmony on the battle field between various units that agree on the ends and morals, then go home. If your co-belligerents don’t share your ethics and objectives, what are you doing fighting with them? Seems you’ll eventually be fighting them since they don’t share your objectives. (Think Patton and the Russians, 1945)

  8. I’ve seen flights of from 2 to 40 slicks led into hot LZs by W1s or 1LTs who have been doing that job for nine or 10 months. I’ve been beside them as I prepped those LZs while a W1 gunship fire team lead. Experience, not rank, was the qualifier. Then as now. I always figured that if I had the misfortune to fall out of my element, I would look for the first guy with the CIB and follow his lead. regards, Alemaster

  9. “Recently, both Barry and Roberts have given you guys things to ponder when/if you decide to take up arms.” I’m sorry. I try to stay abreast of all important posts, but cannot or have not yet read these, and if you judge them valuable, then I know I need them: please share a link?
    And thank you for all you do. Sic semper tyrranis.

  10. Well said, JC. I encountered a kind attitude often, while contracting in Iraq, which basically said, “Oh yeah? Who the fuck are you? I don’t have to listen to you! I’m as much a cool guy as you!”

    This attitude would come often as I was trying to give friendly advice or correct a deadly error which I knew would get someone killed.

    Subordination happens more naturally under fire. Those who usually are unwilling to subordinate themselves, because their hyper-inflated egos won’t allow it, are the first to turn to the quiet, experience, qualified man they were bad mouthing just a moment before.

    I have likened it to airplane pilots. There are two types.

    One is the fully trained and proficient pilot, who can do his walk around, buckle himself in, take off and land, fly from point A to point B and thats about it. In a storm, or at night, or in a critical malfunction situation, he will say, “Oh fuck! Oh shit! Oh God! I’m gonna die! what do I do? Uh, uh… my flight instructor told me to do this…

    The other is the type who straps his airplane on and can’t wait to get it in the air and see what she’s made of. He’ll fly through storms, at night, without navigation aids, and do it with a smile on his face and a thrill in his heart. In a critical malfunction situation, he says to himself, “Ok, she’s doing X. I’m at five thousand feet. Worst case scenario, I have forty-five seconds to get this thing corrected. How do I work this…?

    For those who have been through Ranger School, or SFAS for that matter, the reality is that informal leadership takes over on difficult situations, regardless of who is “in charge”. Those who step up don’t ever thump their chest after the fact and say “Me! Me! Me! Doing the job well is its own reward.

    Charlie Mike, JC.


  11. This is obviously a controverted subject. It is only controverted because the principle of authority is dead. Like it or not it is a simple fact of reality that people are not equal, some people are better than others, inferiors must obey their superiors, and the unlearned must be docile. Otherwise we end up in the post Revolution West — like, well, today.


    Let us pretend there is such a thing as an autonomous rifle platoon which is itself not answerable to any higher and a perfect society.

    The platoon leader is The Authority. Each other of the 40 or so in the platoon are subject — which means being under, belong to — to the PL. The platoon has four squads, which means organization, which needs subordination, the meaning of which is obedience. (The squad leader is now compliant with the PL’s will.) The squad leaders have two subordinate fire team leaders, each of them subject to the SL. The squad TLs have however many subject riflemen only.

    Note the distinction between subordination and subjection. Subordination has to do with organization and compliance to the will of authority. But at every place in the hierarchy, except for the PL, there is subjection.


  12. Leadership: that rare chimeral quality, balancing upon Responsibility, Accountability, and Authority, and being subservient and subordinate to the Trust of the Tribe. Subservience and subordination occur naturally, willingly, as it is in the Tribe’s best interest while confronting destructive forces.


  13. Once again I hear the same song & dance from a guy who sat in a restaurant with the students of another instructor (MaxV) running down a third instructor (John Mosby) for over an hour. Chris, even if your version of the financial issue was true, you were very condescending and demeaning of Mosby. You implied he didn’t even have the experience he claimed and stated that you knew far more. While I value the assistance you provided during Max’ first Patrol Class, I would not train with you given what I see as a serious character issue. I have addressed this before but you never responded. This comment probably won’t get published, but at least you will read it.

    I held a commission for > 20 yrs and have had leadership positions in a variety of civilian settings at times when I would have preferred to be a “worker bee.” I would note that there are also people with MUCH experience that don’t know squat, and relatively inexperienced people who were gifted and far better than many of their ‘elders.’ This isn’t necessarily common, but it does happen. Honestly, I am not that concerned dealing with .gov types out in the woods whose experience was mostly kicking doors in Iraq. Now old Nam vets are a different story, but they are on our side, even if they are gray! Appalachian Redoubt for the win 😉

    • “Chris, even if your version of the financial issue was true, you were very condescending and demeaning of Mosby.”
      Yeah, $2500 bucks, then some lies to cover up responsibility, will do that, and I have the emails to back it up, and you knew that. The irony of you telling me about my “serious character issue”, is very telling.
      “You implied he didn’t even have the experience he claimed and stated that you knew far more.”
      Well nothing like that was said (but this does help validate your statement, doesn’t it? Considering your lack of ability to pay attention to the safety brief before the ambush live fire, and you could have killed someone, I understand how that could happen ) and if you remember, I wasn’t “The Experienced One” who kept saying that Mosby was just “Regurgitating Doctrine, was I? I said the same things to you that I said here ( ) about Mosby’s ability as an instructor. Considering I wrote this after the 2013 Mosby class debacle, and after our conversation, how do you explain that?
      “I have addressed this before but you never responded. This comment probably won’t get published, but at least you will read it.” I have never received anything from you. If I had, I would have addressed it at the time you sent it, just like I am posting this now.
      “I held a commission for > 20 yrs and have had leadership positions in a variety of civilian settings at times when I would have preferred to be a ‘worker bee’.”
      Not all commissions are created equal, especially in the Medical Corps, huh Doc?
      “I would note that there are also people with MUCH experience that don’t know squat, and relatively inexperienced people who were gifted and far better than many of their ‘elders’.”
      I completely agree, but since you were not a “Combat Arms” guy, you really wouldn’t know about the “Door Kickers”, would you?
      ” I am not that concerned dealing with .gov types out in the woods whose experience was mostly kicking doors in Iraq. Now old Nam vets are a different story, but they are on our side”
      Of course you’re not, but that’s because you don’t know what they know, and that’s a foolish mistake to make. As far as Vietnam Vets are concerned, once again, making assumptions about those “facts” is rather foolish, in my opinion. Thanks for commenting.

    • Hey Doc,

      You might want to sit down.

      This is not a fanboy defense of JC. I am not one and JC doesn’t need it.

      But then, neither does mosby. Or does he? JC has stated numerous times that mosby is a good trainer. But as a human being, in MY opinion with skin, time and money, in the game, I can trust mosby like I can trust my shiftless brother-in-law to pay me back the benjamin he owes me.

      mosby fucked me over for a training weekend, actually three days as I found out later, for two people, he kept the money, provided nothing, not even a “Fuck You VERY MUCH.”. mosby’s OPSUC(sic) and careless commo skills are in the blame C; his HH6 now handles course logistics and commo, hopefully things have improved.

      With fewer than 52 weekends a year available for training and a working farm with livestock, I want to know that when I confirm training date/time groups multiple times with an instructor, he will show up on time. With mosby this did not happen. When I finally tracked him down, I was at EVTC setting up camp on a Friday morning for his training, he wouldn’t even take or RETURN my phone call. Nothing. I later found out that he had changed the course from FRI/SAT/SUN to SAT/SUN/MON, but had neglected to tell me.

      Disseminating character info, especially of a bad faith actor, allows others to proceed with all due caution. I don’t call that a “serious character issue”, I call it a “headsup” or “looking out for my friends.”

      BTW Doc, where are those pack tie down straps I lent you at MV’s first patrol class? You never bothered to return them prior to leaving the training site or any time since.

      Gotta watch out for them motes, logs, whatever, in your eye! Later.

      Joe Fahy

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