Oregon: Information Gathering, OpSec, And The Blame Game

While conversing with a friend this evening, I brought up the topic of why were all the people picked up at the Fed Traffic Stop/Shooting put in the same vehicle for initial transport, and that it violated normal LEO protocol. I also mentioned to my friend that I thought it was done on purpose. “Why on purpose?”, was his inquiry. If I recall correctly, I said “They (REFUGEes) were dumb enough to say stupid things in front of Santilli’s camera, maybe the Feds recorded their conversation in the van to build a better info/intel picture of them after that stressful situation. They were THE leadership, right?”.

I also mentioned that between the videos of Shawna Cox and Mark McConnell, there was some obvious arguments that went on, both between Payne and Finicum before he took off, and between Cox and McConnell (among others) in the van. I mentioned that if the Feds knew what direction they were going to go with their story/account of Finicum’s killing/murder when they retold it, it would give them a leg up, info wise, and might have been the reason they were so willing to put out that video so soon.

My Buddy advised me that I should write this up, and I mentioned something to the effect of “And have the blogosphere question my analyst credentials. (P.S. I was a grunt, not an analyst)” Oh, the horror! Cluephone for the ignorant. I don’t give two Damns what you think of this assessment. It is based on my training and experience, and understanding of certain SOP’s, and considering some of the “assessments” you guys are giving credibility to, I could say it was aliens that did it, and probably be closer to the truth.

On the same video I heard Cox say that McConnell was the “Rat/Snitch/Fed”, and was feeding the Feds/OSP info about their trip plans. From what I gather, her reasoning is due to his recent arrival, the fact he was not arrested, and because he “talked” them out of taking more people (that’s a leadership/security failure, if it even happened, and wasn’t that Payne’s area?). I think she might want to be careful slinging the “Rat/Fed” word around, especially since one of the primary “Co-conspirators” (Blaine Cooper) left without incident AFTER the shooting happened and has yet to be arrested as of this time (as far as I know).
Another point was Ryan Payne getting out of Finicum’s truck at the initial stop (after supposedly being shot at, right? Why would he do that?), before it went into the ambush that was waiting for them (was that convenient?). I would also like to point out that like McConnell, Victoria was not arrested (Is she a “Rat/Fed”?), and Shawna herself was released (on bail I’m guessing, probably because I think she is the only Oregon resident of the group)
Am I pointing fingers? Nope. Enough of that is being done by the inner circle and the ANALysts watching the video on their phone and making their “initial ‘God given’ opinion/assessments” because people want to know what they think the “facts” are (Facts? OK, sure they are). You guys (REFUGEes) were your own worst info/intel nightmare, and you handed them OpSec Info wrapped with a bow through Santilli and whatever other medium you ran your mouths on.
Maybe another blogger is right. Obviously it wasn’t a tactical operation, simply because if it was (with their watch tower, LPOP’s, guard shifts, and Multicam adorned monkeys), it was the most inept “Tactical” enterprise of all time. You want to know what I think happened? I don’t know what the Hell happened, and I’m not foolish enough to say what I believe happened till we have more info (like audio) that is processed into intel. Be careful following the assessment of anyone who is attacking the assessments of others (unless it’s an outright lie as I mentioned in this post). With what we have available (in reality, not much…yet), information wise, those attacks on other assessments are probably only being done to be the “I said it first” guys.
JCD
American by BIRTH, Infidel by CHOICE
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8 thoughts on “Oregon: Information Gathering, OpSec, And The Blame Game

  1. At Bundy ranch,it was Ryan Payne that was not trusted,now we hear Santilli may or may not be working for the feds,some say he is,blah blah blah blah-no one knows for sure,no one has all the facts-most have very few to none of the facts.
    At least some of us-those who admit they don’t know what the hell happened are the ones who are the most credible-because of the admission that there is simply not enough known,there are not enough facts,not enough credible info,and unless or until the audio of the Finnicum shooting is released-no one can say for sure what took place in that situation-it could be that his hands were going to the places where he was shot-and not going for a gun that may or may not have been in his coat’s inner pocket.
    Some people put out solid info throughout the Malheur situation,without claiming to know all the facts,they just relayed what they knew was factual info,and that’s what everyone should have done-and should continue to do-not spread a bunch of bovine excrement.

  2. Anything, if anything, the feds put out, will not be in the interest of justice, or the truth. So people are speculating. So what. I originally speculated the LaVoy was reaching for a gun, until I downloaded the video, re-uploaded, cropped the video of Lavoy to just before he got to the roadblock, then dropped the video speed 4X, then looped various sections. I don’t think LaVoy was reaching for a gun. In fact, I think the first shooter, after LaVoy exited the vehicle, was the guy who almost got himself ran over, crouched behind the black pick-up, shot, then ran for cover. But then, yes, I am speculating. It would be nice to have a crystal clear, up-close video, but I don’t. And I don’t think that is going to happen, unless somehow, it is found through a discovery process, controlled by the feds.

    Do I think this was a piss poor plan? Yes. Do I think the remaining 4 hold-overs are making an ass out of themselves with their live-feeds? Yes. Did I think for one second that the feds were going to let them get away with it? Not a chance.

    But regardless, whatever one feels, they took a stand on principle. That principle being, that the feds have no authority to be controlling 1/3 of all state lands. 51 percent of Oregon, claiming it is federal territory. They had no authority over the Hammond’s. Now, in the REAL world, the feds claim that they do. And they will back up that claim with guns, violence, and death. But, in the reality world, our constitution does not delegate that power. Now, either we are going to hold the feds accountable to the constitution, or we are going to let the feds continue to ignore it, backed up with guns, violence, and death.

    We can continue to look at this through the lens of the feds eyes, or we can look at this through the lens of the constitution.

    The fact is, we can sit here until hell freezes over, saying they shouldn’t have done this. And they shouldn’t have done that. And this was wrong and that was wrong. Let’s wait to see what the finally report says. Let’s see what further evidence comes out. Maybe he DID reach for a gun… and that is wrong! The… law. And guess what? Our oppressors agree. And our oppressors are only to happy if we continue to look at this through their eyes, rather than through the lens of our constitution. We can also ignore the constitution, except to continue to give it lip service, continue to cower like dogs, and accept the feds power by gun, and come to the conclusion that we really do not give a crap about the constitution because of federal guns, violence, and death is the constitution. Well, theirs. And that is enough. Frankly, I don’t care if LaVoy had a gun, or not. If the feds had not repeatedly usurped our constitution, none of this would have happened. But they did, they do, and they did, no matter how piss poor, stood up on principle.

  3. JCD, you are totally right about this. It is way too early to jump to conclusions. At some the more reliable info will leak out and the picture of what happened in Utah will much more clear.

  4. I, for one, have watched all of the videos, heard all of the interviews . and have come to my own conclusions. I will keep my conclusions to myself and a select few, here in my A.O.

    I am not an intelligence analyst, just an old 11B.

    Let the keyboard commando’s bang away at their keyboards, ’cause it is obvious that they do not know shit from shinola, especially that little weasel bastard, sammy secret squirrel.

    Bob
    III

    • I agree Bob, and that is why I haven’t given my “analysis” of the limited info we have. Hell, I wasn’t even going to bring up this speculation till my friend said I needed to. In my military role, I received, used and disseminated intel for use in Op orders, that was it, and except for some common sense or in this post’s case, experience type situations, I do not feel qualified to put this puzzle together, especially with so many missing and needed parts.

  5. Pingback: Start By Zipping Your Lip… | Western Rifle Shooters Association

  6. The whole damn situation is depressing.I would as brought up on many sites and here earlier to know if any thing to help the Hammond/Finicum family has come to light yet/do they even want outside assistance, and remind folks to sign the petition in regards to the Hammond re sentancing,and try and get others to sign the petition,may do no good but at least try peaceful means.The only thing I can get from this whole mess right now is if possible help the folks harmed in this situation,and have a even more appreciation of life/family/friends.

  7. Yep. Let’s wait and see. It should be interesting, no doubt surprising, and informative as well. Kudos to those who really do the tracking and assessing of this event.

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