A Thought For The “Commentariat” On “Quo Vadis, Jade Helm 15?”

Helo

This is from a mutual acquaintance concerning his thoughts on some ad hominem comments towards SFC Steve Barry in the Jade Helm post at WRSA here. If you truly knew Steve, you would realize that these type of attacks really do nothing but prove the points he is making, concerning the ability, true motivation, and survivability of a percentage of the readers here, and every time you attack him instead of his premise, you prove 1) You do not understand the premise, 2) You must reply because your emotions have the better of you, and 3) You are so close-minded, that it has shut down your ability to better yourself through the realization that there are some glaring issues you need to, but are not willing to bring up, let alone address. The author of this comment has some info for you who commented on that post (you know who you are). Heed it, don’t heed it, I don’t care, Steve doesn’t care, Frank doesn’t care, but quit acting like a bunch of effeminate “hard asses”, since they are mutually exclusive descriptions.

JCD

______________________________________________________________________________________

July 20, 2015

By Frank Pinelander

The noise from this party is what drew me to it.
I find the vast majority of the comments sad. What is rightfully given the label of patriot nonsense,  lumped in with militia drivel from decades past. Has anyone thought about that? DECADES PAST, of the SAME stories? How it didn’t happen then? And yet, here we are, seeing the same thing over and over.
There’s the same tired accusations by the same shrill voices, only this time they have the power of a free distribution system for their meanderings, as opposed to actually having to go out and make something from nothing, at great personal, emotional and financial expense. But then, how many of the shrill voices here are getting paid? It’s been proven time and time again, that there are trolls that only engage in ad hominem posts because that is their job. Those that do so of their own accord; well, their lack of social and verbal skills, not to mention lack of a grasp of history and things military, speak for the validity of their screeds.
I’ve known Steve since the early days. I’m familiar with what he went through to do something to change the direction the country was going in. Things that will not, indeed, probably cannot, and surely should not, be made public. I will tell you this, it was brilliant. But then, if anyone bothered to get to know the man, his history and knowledge base, they wouldn’t even bother posting the things they do.
Starting from the top of the comments, responding in the order that they pop up:
You “dangerous revolutionaries” have nothing to fear from government. The fear you have, is all on you. If you’d bother to actually delve into things, you’d find out from a large number of OSINT (Democracy in action – the Bolsheviks got laws passed in the 60s, forcing the government to give access to the files that were being kept on the Bolsheviks. Now we can, and at least some do, take advantage of those rules) that they really think the IIIper/Prepper/Patriot movement is a joke. Oh, but their minions at the SPLC and media just love to make you bask in your own self importance, by labeling you a threat in the media. Doesn’t anyone else here understand how propaganda works?
Getting locals acclimated to military movements in the US. Has anyone, ANYONE, bothered to do the math? Does anyone here understand logistics? We have again, OSINT and recent events in the Sandbox, that tell us what kind of resources are necessary to pull that off. THEY DON’T EXIST. DoD doctrine on the matter on dealing with any potential large scale problems in any major metropolitan area is to cordon it off and let it burn. The same thing they’ve been doing since the 60s. Let’s assume that FEDGOV was going to try a gun confiscation somewhere. How long do you think they could keep a lid on that? Then, there’d be a hornets’ nest in the rest of the US for them. It’d be game on. They know that, why can’t you figure it out?  Or did anyone remember how things were spinning up regarding the Connecticut assault weapons ban? Or how they did spin up regarding Bundy Ranch?
Mr. Barry’s “type”. You obviously, know nothing. If you don’t care what he says, then why bother responding? While you stand on the edge, looking at stars, those that are enslaving this nation, and indeed the world, are undermining the cliff face.
Ahhh, goat herders kicking ass without external nation state support. Been there? Know anyone that was? Chasing Taliban? Finding caches of NEW CHICOM weapons and ammunition? Intel provided by China, in the form of satellite imagery? Oh, you didn’t read that in the “news”? Gee, go figure. Study the proxy wars fought between the US and the USSR.
As for not winning a war in the last 80 years, blame civilian leadership, not the military.
The military did not make anyone see a US soldier as a UN soldier, that falls upon the fear mongers for several decades. If one bothers to look at history, this same militia talk has been going on since FDR and all of his doings. If you really want to know where the military stands on things, do some research on Combat Arms Survey question 46. That questionnaire went out rather widely. The intervening years showed us that those in the military that actually had the capabilities to do that, not only wouldn’t, but would indeed take up arms WITH The People. If anyone really believes the government stopping the things it was doing, had anything to do with Monica Lewinsky’s laundry habits, they not only weren’t paying attention then, but didn’t bother to follow up later.
Fat ass? Really? Beltway? Hardly to both. You’d never know it if you encountered him, but then that’s the way it’s supposed to be. Don’t get within reach. And for those that’ll pound their chest to that about long range – well, that’s his hunting ground, I wouldn’t recommend it. Not that you’d ever do it. Pounding on your keyboard and sitting at a concrete bench with known distances is all you know. Bet you’ve got an app for it, too.
.mil agent foaming agitprop. Either you understand the definition, then go into ad hominem engaging in said, or, you breathe through your mouth. Either way, doesn’t matter.
I have to laugh, at someone telling SMB he doesn’t know anything about guerrilla warfare. Sadly, that’ll have to remain personal.
Jade Helm as practice for a domestic future. True, to an extent. If anyone, again, bothered to dig into it, Mastering the Human Domain was the working title. What is that? HUMINT. For the military, on its face as it’s been playing out. All one had to do, was look at the role players that were hired to participate:
CIA agent – previous experience, CIA agent
Ambassador – previous experience, Ambassador
Intel officer – previous experience, Intel officer
Etc., etc., etc.
I can guarantee you, that the NSA got all kinds of valuable practice, with all the message traffic on this, that they can refine their algorithms, rather nicely at that.
Plugging the Mexican border, requires more than a passing familiarity with geopolitical imperatives and the nation-state dynamics that revolve around them. Bottom line, not going to happen. Certain nations would collapse, as would most of the inner cities in the US.
Yes, the Patriot Movement went sour. It started out on the right foot, for the right reasons, then after awhile, especially when FEDGOV started backing off, it turned in on itself. Sadly, were starting to see similar in this current rendition of it.
Hopeful that SF and Rangers could be persuaded to “lead the way.” They were, then George Bush got elected. As an SF friend, ready to do so relayed to me: You can only fall on your sword once, so you better pick that cause carefully.
The remainder, seems to either be addressed by others, or not worth being addressed.

Flame away, I doubt I’ll come back to see you consumed by your own fires.
______________________________________________________________________________________
When things fall apart and you are searching for the “why” of your failures, you will have no one to blame but yourselves. You had “Help” from a variety of sources, but only chose to listen to those who didn’t aggravate your delicate sensitivities and pre-conceived notions concerning what was to come.
JCD
American by BIRTH, Infidel by CHOICE
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29 thoughts on “A Thought For The “Commentariat” On “Quo Vadis, Jade Helm 15?”

  1. When things fall apart and you are searching for the “why” of your failures, you will have no one to blame but yourselves. You had “Help” from a variety of sources, but only chose to listen to those who didn’t aggravate your delicate sensitivities and pre-conceived notions concerning what was to come.

    That was the BEST statement i have heard anyone throw out there in ever..

    Bergmann

  2. Pingback: Two From MDT | Western Rifle Shooters Association

  3. I said my 2 cents worth on the post-which began with this…

    ” gamegetterII | June 29, 2015 at 18:37 |

    The Sgt makes some valid points,but he’s painting everyone in the III%/Patriot/prepper community as paranoid nutcases.
    One of the videos,along with pics and commentary posted on multiple sites on the interwebz concerning Jade Helm was about military trucks on rail cars in Cleveland/NE Ohio,and the Twinsburg reserve base parking lot being full.
    I live about 5-10 minutes-depending on traffic- from the Twinsburg base-the lot is full every weekend,and often full for weeks at a time.There’s a huge .mil facility about 40 minutes from Cleveland where a lot of training takes place,the military vehicles on rail cars,and the Twinsburg reserve base parking lot being full are normal,everyday occurrences.”

    Sgt. Barry still was and is wrong to claim everyone in the Patriot/III%/prepper community is a paranoid nutcase,whackjob,conspiracy theorist,or a fat,out of shape,untrained dumb ass who shouldn’t handle weapons.

    • What, you have nothing else to respond with than that? You made a number of accusations about SFC Barry, let’s review shall we?
      You said as a response, “The Sgt is also wrong about the National Guard being the militia…”
      The Efficiency Of Militia Bill HR 11654 (also known as the Dick Act) says this, “The three classes H.R. 11654 provides for are the organized militia, henceforth known as the National Guard of the State, Territory and District of Columbia, the unorganized militia and the regular army.”
      He’s referring to it from that reference point, but for your enlightenment, if the Constitution is being followed, The Dick Act of 1902 cannot be repealed; to do so would violate bills of attainder and ex post facto laws which would be yet another gross violation of the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
      You said, “Seems to me a lot of non state sponsored groups of people have waged UW and kicked ass at it-beginning with the American revolution.”
      Have you ever read the UW history of the Revolutionary War, not just watched it in “The Patriot”?
      You said, “While some of us see a conspiracy in far too many things”
      So you’ve admitted it’s true, but now want to withdraw your assertion?
      You said, “Sgt Barry saw all kinds of problems with .gov inc. in the past,now he seems to be cheerleading for .gov inc.”
      His statement that Jade Helm 15 is an exercise (which debunks the common BS JH15 line) is what you claim means he’s a “cheerleader” for .gov? Maybe you guys are just pissed that someone who is “In the know” debunked your “fantasy camp” Paul Revere assertion of “The government’s comin’, the government’s comin’!
      You said, “The Sgt would have us ignore the ever increasing .mil presence among us,and just shut the fuck up when multiple city,state and fed LEO’s conduct warrantless door to door searches of our homes.”
      What does “warrantless door to door searches” have to do with his assertion that JH15 is just an exercise? Trying to muddy the waters with claims not made in the original post shows a lack of merit for your overall argument.
      Few that I have seen in the militia community are actually in shape, and have actually put forth an effort to get training. Most (that I have seen, and I’ve worked with a lot over the last twenty couple years) are in the militia for one of two reasons. 1) They never served in the mil, and want to be able to say “Look at me, I’m a tactical wonderdog.”, 2)They want to be able to say “I’m a ‘fill in the blank rank’ in the militia” (Colonel is popular). Are there guys with the right attitude, and drive in the militia? Sure. But the majority are too wraped around the axle of uniforms, rank, and whether the “officers” should wear PC’s and the “enlisted” wear boonie’s.
      You said, “Sgt. Barry still was and is wrong to claim everyone in the Patriot/III%/prepper community is a paranoid nutcase,whackjob,conspiracy theorist,or a fat,out of shape,untrained dumb ass who shouldn’t handle weapons.”
      I’m curious, where in the original post did he say this?

    • Affirmative!

      My AO is the Wilcox Brothers Backyard, aka: “Twinsburg,” as well. Been here since 1974.

  4. 1) The Dick Act/SCOTUS decision in Perpich-vs-DOD
    Then the SGT should state that he’s using that as a basis-because like it or not-the fact is that there are a boatload of ex-post facto laws,and laws/regs that are in direct violation of the Constitution.

    2) UW-American revolution-just how much “state sponsored help did those who fired upon the English have when the war began?None-nada,zip,zero.
    Sure,they got help from the French-years after the war had started.
    I did go to college,and obtain a couple of degrees,I’m not some clueless high school dropout who never studied or read any history.

    3) Please point out where I withdrew my assertion-yes far too many people do in fact see conspiracies in far too many things-as I pointed out in the first paragraph of my comment-most are pure bullshit.

    4) Sgt.Barry being a cheerleader .gov inc./.mil-that one’s pretty clear in his entire post. Along with his past posts on WRSA.
    Who’s fantasy? Sure the hell not mine-you can go back years on the ‘net-I’ve only ever posted under 2 “names” online the one used here and at WRSA,and SyarvinLarry-you’ll find zero posts from me anywhere that support the whacko conspiracy everywhere horsepucky-I’ve reposted such drivel to make a point-and/ or questioned the assumptions,but I go with factual information-not intardnet garbage.
    5) So National Guard units along with fed,state and local LEO’s conducting door to door searches in Watertown is nothing to be concerned about? Everything the military does is legal and Constitutional? The Sgt has made several posts on WRSA,all supporting .gov/.mil. never questioning the shit that has in fact gone on.

    As for many,maybe even majority of those in “militia” units,from what I’ve seen over the past 10 years or so-I fully agree with your assessment.
    That still does not mean there are not some groups who do train,and aren’t fat lazy fucks calling each other Colonel,Major, and Captain.

    6) How about multiple places in the entire post-including the one I pointed out-

    “UW is not a comic book. That is why this writer strongly discourages children from playing with fire, touching the burner, or sticking a fork in the outlet. Dream about it howsoever you will, you cannot do it. All UW is state sponsored; it is out of your capacity. If you do try the ROBIN SAGE comic book version you will be killed. Period.”

    Right,we’re all “children”.

    and here
    “Hell no: In any case not among “patriots.” The panic mongers will continue to roar against the logical consequences of the ideas they embrace; they’ll scream EEEEEEEK! at the odd shadows of any mindless idiocy like frightened girls; they’ll change the subject and back pedal when facts contradict them; “patriots” will still tune in to the latest outrage and click the Like! button”

    Don’t forget-I started out by saying the Sgt made some valid points- and he did/does. That does not mean that the man is right about everything,or that everyone will agree with him.
    Those with more than 3 functioning brain cells will learn from the points the Sgt.made. You don’t have to agree with everything a person does or says to learn from them-and that is what many people do not/did not/have not “got” from the Sgt’s last few posts on WRSA.
    I made my points,and I stand by what I posted.

    • 1), Why would he qualify something that everyone on WRSA should know is a Constituionally valid fact, and the whole reason for the National Guards existence, has everything to do with the Dick Act.
      2)What battles did the Militia (the UW side of things) win, let alone bring France to our aid? They had a herd enough time holding their own, let alone gain ground (the winning part).
      3)“Sgt. Barry still was and is wrong to claim everyone in the Patriot/III%/prepper community is a paranoid nutcase,whackjob,conspiracy theorist,or a fat,out of shape,untrained dumb ass who shouldn’t handle weapons.”
      “While some of us see a conspiracy in far too many things”.
      “As for many,maybe even majority of those in “militia” units,from what I’ve seen over the past 10 years or so-I fully agree with your assessment.”

      These are all quotes from you. Did he say everyone, or is that an assumption you’ve made? I know he is aware od some who are training, and don’t fit that “mould”. Hell, you’ve even agreed here that it’s true in everything but the amount, and i don’t believe he ever said “everyone”.
      4) It’s “Clear” how? Because he gave you the facts? If I tell you “Cops stop crime.” does that mean I’m a huge fan, and don’t see the injustices done every day towards civilians? Hell no! It means I’m stating a fact that cops do stop crime, and I am cognizant of that. As far as the “fantasy camp” statement is concerned, you know as well as I there are those out there who want JH15 to be everything the “nuts” say it is, don’t be naive.
      5)Once again, you make assumptions based on little or no data. SFC barry hasn’t spoken about “watertown”, because it was not pertinent to the topics of discussion. I know what he thinks of it because we have had that conversation, but to make a baseless assumption about his opinion on that, because he hasn’t spoken about it is the epitome of ridiculous.
      6)First, you are “children” from a “realistic understanding” point of view. How long was your last militia “field problem”? When was the last time you practiced UW? It’s a fact, not a put down. He’s blunt, and he is right. Second, When the militias get off Face Book, stop watching videos by Alex Jones, and Mark Koernke, and start actually training instead of sitting around a fire talking about their next AR accessory purchase, while eating their third Caramello (I love Caramello, btw), and chasing it with a Yoohoo, (both are sitting on the “Bookshelf type modular food storage unit) then they will lose that stereotype. I appreciate the fact that it wasn’t an “everything is BS” comment, but keep this in mind. He doesn’t like what “The Movement” has become. He put more effort into helping “The Movement” while in a position to get hammered by the mil, than anyone you can name, and you’ll never know the full extent of his involvement. He’s observed the “reality” of “The Movement” over decades, and has stated it here, just so the ignorant can throw ad hominem attacks at him for speaking the truth. There are plenty (bloggers and commenters alike) in the blogosphere that love to throw baseless attacks at those who threaten their perceptions and/or bottom line (don’t I know it). We can either be the “Adults in the room”, shrug it off, and continue with what we are doing to help. Or we can let it get to us, try to defend our position (if the accuser will even post dissenting opinions), and let someone’s ignorant perception of us consume the good we’re trying to do. BTW, I don’t pick and choose the comments I post, based on who agrees with my opinion, and I appreciate and respect your response, even if it doesn’t agree with my opinion, because that’s how it’s supposed to work.

      • “I appreciate and respect your response, even if it doesn’t agree with my opinion, because that’s how it’s supposed to work.”

        I appreciate you posting the comments you don’t agree with as well-because you’re right-that IS how it’s supposed to work,but far too often does not.

  5. You guys are arguing right past each other, missing the point.

    The point is the lost credibility of anything dot-gov, including the military chain of command. This is the Internet – there is no way to verify anything, it’s all based on probability distributions of trust, based on what “everyone else” is saying.

    So the III% is mistrustful. Even mistrustful of guys that say they know guys that know.

    Rather than arguing about unverifiable assertions — from both sides — you should be working on ways and means of re-establishing trust between the Ruling Class, the Enforcer Class and the peons who pay the bills and do the dying.

    It says above SF and Rangers were ready to “lead the way” until GWB got elected. Lead to way to where from where? Even so, that was a long time ago. I notice no dot-mil leadership resignations, let alone complaints, despite the queering of the Armed Forces or over females in combat (their presence was a battle lost long ago).

    So if the military leadership is unwilling to take public stands against something as offensive as females in combat and open homosexuals fully integrated into the barracks, What is the basis for trust on something as potentially deadly as opposing one’s government with force?

    Stay on target gentlemen. The real issue is trust. Absent trust, all manner of evil must follow.

  6. I too read the initial post from SFC Barry. Some of the things he said did make my blood boil, but I also know a lot of what he said was fact! But because I was emotionally affected I didn’t want to comment without letting it soak in and take a breath first. Well, because of my busy schedule I forgot about making a comment. But I will comment now. I’m not going to speak for all III%r’s or other militia groups, just for me and my own.

    We as a group did not think JH15 was anything more than a training exercise, although we never say never about anything the government does. The US military is not our enemy, nor do any of these soldiers participating have a choice about their participation. They are soldiers, they follow orders so you can’t blast them for participating. SFC Barry is correct, you go head to head with US military and it will be your funeral, we know that as a group. Oh we might get in our licks in here and there but it’s not something you want to do unless you have a death wish, again the majority of the military personnel are on our side they are not the enemy. I whole heartedly disagree about going up against the cops, or even DHS for that matter but again they are not the enemy as a whole. As a matter of fact most of them are on our side and they need to pay their mortgages and feed their families too. Doesn’t matter if they disagree with some of the things they have to do they need their jobs. How many of you will risk your job, your livelihood right now when we are not even close to reaching critical levels of tyranny?

    But SFC Barry shouldn’t under estimate the militia (I guess this was where my gripe was and the emotional effect it had on me), yes there are some, I’ve watched some of these guys on TV and or YouTube and it is laughable with out of shape fat guys running around with their “Colonel” barking orders (I’m 47, 12% body fat and can still run a 7 minute mile), but then there are a lot like my group who were taken under the wing by current and former SF, regular army\Marines and sites like Defensive Training Group, Mountain Gorilla, Mac Velocity etc who gave us great training and knowledge and made us into a adversary not to be taken lightly. But we still wouldn’t go head to head with the US military, even if they were the enemy, which they are not and if we did at most it would be ambush and harassment and get the fuck out quick!

    It’s now been 6 years of my waking and militia training and I am also disillusioned by the whole Patriot movement. Oh there are events that make me proud to be a III%r, like the Bundy Ranch standoff, but as a whole I am disappointed that more hasn’t been done to stand up to the tyranny (what is more?). I guess I expected some sort of populace uprising and taking back the constitution by force and riding ourselves of tyrants from all aspects of government. I don’t think it is going to happen, not in my lifetime anyway, or maybe when I’m very old and unable to do anything to help the cause. The American “Patriots” have jobs and need to also pay their bills and feed their families and until they can’t there will be no uprising, no revolution (there could be civil war with the left\right). So I can relate to SFC Barry’s disillusionment with the movement. I still train with my group, not because I think something will happen, that the people will rise up, but because I like doing it and I like being prepared and keeping my skills sharp. Nothing like the adrenalin rush of training drills with live rounds. There will be a day when I can’t do these things, and until then I plan on doing them and passing on what I learned to others.

    I have much respect for SFC Barry and what he has done.

    Peace out.

  7. one small correction. having served 29 years in the national guard including deployments overseas i can tell you the guard is no militia. it is now a de facto reserve element of the army in every way. homeland defense and civil disturbance are seldom if ever trained. units go from deployment to refit, to deployment back to refit. one of my units is going to gitmo next month. how is that a national guard mission? why did the guard make up a half to a third of each deployment, some against governor’s request, when much of the army sat at home station? none of us minded defending our country, that’s why we joined. certainly wasn’t the pay. the guard under “transformation” was mandated to organize under the same exact mtoe as army units of the same type despite how un-workable that is when split up over wide geographical areas. we also lost vast amounts of materiel that was necessary for disaster relief in order to “mirror the army”. not militia, army reserve. everything else you said is spot on. one other point, there are a great many former troops, most well trained and veterans, that are patriots and just waiting for someone they can trust to lead them should the need arise. if general mattis were to really cross the potomac he would be well accompanied.

    • They are militia (the organized militia), and have been federally deployed numerous times since shortly after the Dick Act was in place (one of the reasons for the Dick Act was to require the feds to square away the state units with standardized equipment used by the active army). The difference is they are a state entity that can function federally, and the federal troops don’t have the same authority. As far as MTOE is concerned, what a unit needs and gets should be in line with what type of unit it is, not that they are a state militia entity or not. NG units still get extra items that are not typical for active army units, that are specifically issued with the state mission in mind.

    • Hell, I blame that on two things. 1) Their ability to determine reality is overwhelmed by desire for the conspiracy to be true. 2) The asshats who forward these ridiculous notions, and encourage action by implying a lack thereof is cowardly.

  8. JCD,

    You won’t convince them. They don’t want to know. When push comes to shove they’ll be begging for your (and Steve’s, and Frank’s, etc…) leadership. I know Steve’s response to all the nay sayers is to roll his eyes and say, “Yeah… call me names.”

    • That’s not all that happened that day, but I believe you’re comparison of 9/11 (one day’s events) to JH15’s overall “scheme of maneuver” (months) makes too many assumptions, with little or no facts. If they were using JH15 as a devious plan to implement martial law take over, why would they do it in such remote areas(relative to Eastern enclaves)? Wouldn’t there be better, more populated, centers of “resistance” (the deep, dirty, racist south) they could have done the exercise/take over in, and been a true “trojan horse”?

  9. Geez….stop the knee jerking already. Shut your pie holes and keep your eyes and ears open. A few of you know what to do. The rest of you stay on the porch.
    I’ll wait for the dust to settle and the guys who are left standing are my mates.
    “He who knows does not speak, he who speaks does not know” Lao Tzu

  10. I never commented on the other post at WRSA, just read the comments and shook my head in disgust.

    I don’t know SFC Barry at all, but I felt his reach while serving in the 10th Mountain during his time writing the Resistor. The command started losing it’s mind and started giving us briefings about the evils of his handiwork and to be on the look out for subversives in the ranks including what sort of propaganda I should be looking for in the barracks when I was there checking on my soldiers…having started out under Reagan and then suffering the humiliation of serving under Clinton, it was great to see him living in their minds rent free! It was a definite propaganda coup and morale booster for the traditional soldiers then in the ranks.

    My best friend was there in 3rd group at the same time as SFC Barry until his death in AFG in ’03 and I have nothing but the utmost respect for the both of them and what they did back in the day.

    For those talking trash, they obviously were not serving in the military in a combat arms MOS at that time, for if they were they’d not be making the derogatory comments that they were over on the WRSA post.

    DOL SFC Barry. Though we never met, you made an impact on me and gave me hope during my time in uniform. We need an SFC Barry ver. 2.0 now more than ever!

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